Abbado's Mahler: Chicago or Berlin?

[Alison]

The Penguin Guide seriously overrated the Solti M7. Discuss.

[jayne lee wilson]

The Penguin Guide seriously overrated the Solti M7. Discuss.

Tread softly for you tread on my dreams....

Or memories. I saved up for months to buy the heavy, luxurious 2-LP black-and-blue boxset. I adored it utterly - and not altogether uncritically - but just for the piece really....it certainly sounded wonderful.
One of my earliest Mahler buys, after the LSO/Solti 1st, NYPO/Barbirolli 5th and Klemperer 2nd.
(EG's very detailed, extended and positive review (with comparison to Haitink, Bernstein etc) is in G. for 9/71).

I recall how put out I felt when RO, surveying the work for BaL, played part of the Solti 7th scherzo and then said: "Mahler in the style of Ravel, from Sir Georg Solti"....i.e far too plush. (I think BRSO/Kubelik might have got top spot or perhaps Haitink)..

I don't listen to Mahler much now, but when I finally did hear the CSO/Abbado 7th I very much admired it, and never got on with his later, much-vaunted-and-awarded Berlin 7th (or 6th) whose sound-balances never seemed right, or at all very appealing to the ear - or at least my ear.

[Alison]

Good summary Jayne!

I’m not sure that any of the Layton-March-Greenfield team were dyed-in-the-wool Mahlerians.

RO was right though wasn’t he? As Ive said before the Chicago timpanist couldnt really play the beginning of the finale.

Yes and how was that Abbado Sixth (Berlin) record of the year?!

[BBMmk2]

Confused? You will be ...

I think what's happened is that Bbm might have understood visnick to mean all of Mahler's Symphonies, not specifically the Seventh? In whatever case, Solti didn't ever record the Seventh with the LSO.



Unless someone knows differently ....

I thought we were talking about the Solti Mahler 2nd?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I thought we were talking about the Solti Mahler 2nd?

I thought so!

No, Bbm - in #35, verismissimo said "I've never related closely to Mahler 7, but acquisition of Abbado/Chicago has converted me"

to which visnick replied in #37 "Exactly my experience, as well. Even Solti didn't manage to 'convert' me !"

[BBMmk2]

I thought so!

No, Bbm - in #35, verismissimo said "I've never related closely to Mahler 7, but acquisition of Abbado/Chicago has converted me"

to which visnick replied in #37 "Exactly my experience, as well. Even Solti didn't manage to 'convert' me !"

Ah yes. Thank you as ever Ferney.

I have to admit that as soon as the CSO/Abbado recording was published, I was converted too. Transfixed infact!

[cloughie]

I would like the CSO Abbado 6 but it looks a tad expensive at around £14 plus p&p so I'll hold off at the moment.

[BBMmk2]

I would like the CSO Abbado 6 but it looks a tad expensive at around £14 plus p&p so I'll hold off at the moment.

It’s very good and so is the Berliner’s! Probably better.

[Barbirollians]

I found the Berlin Mahler 5 on Amazon music today - it really is very fine especially the flowing speed for the Adagietto. I think having just bought the Bernstein 1 and5 these passed me by in the early 1990s.

I now also have the Blu-ray of the Lucerne Ninth - I think it lives up to all the praise heaped upon it.

[gradus]

I wish the Mahler Jugendorchester/Abbado Mahler 5 at the Proms was available- the best I ever heard.

[jayne lee wilson]

I wish the Mahler Jugendorchester/Abbado Mahler 5 at the Proms was available- the best I ever heard.

I guess you got this one?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-No-5-No-10-Barshai/dp/B0001BPQW0/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=rudolf+barshai+mahler&qid=1634819624&qsid=257-5213790-5190351&rnid=1642204031&s=music&sr=1-1&sres=B0001BPQW0%2CB00677JTAW&srpt=ABIS_MUSIC

One of the great 5ths, for sure. Barshai 10th fascinating. Cheap CD (not many left...), or stream/download somewhere.....

[Barbirollians]

Having bought a cheap second hand CD I am even more impressed by the Berlin Mahler 5 from Abbado. Definitely prefer it to the CSO - up there with Barbirolli ,Bernstein DG and the 1947 Walter for me.

[Barbirollians]

Having bought a cheap second hand CD I am even more impressed by the Berlin Mahler 5 from Abbado. Definitely prefer it to the CSO - up there with Barbirolli ,Bernstein DG and the 1947 Walter for me.

Not forgetting the terrific RPO/Shipway recording on Tring .

[richardfinegold]

Pristine Audio has three different versions of the Fifth led by Jascha Horenstein available. Two stem from a performance from a festival in Edinburgh with the Berlin PO, apparently their first acquaintance with M5. The third is with the LSO, a studio recording, from 1958 in mono regrettably (at least I think it’s mono. Pristine does this “Ambient Stereo “ thing and Andrew Rose note is somewhat vague). This may also be the LSO maiden voyage with M5.
The LSO recording was apparently commissioned by Vox, which then apparently stiffed all involved for their fees, and so it sat in the Vaults for decades. I don’t ever recall seeing a LSO recording on the Vox label. Usually the Vox Orchestras would be world class ensembles such as “The Rhinelanders Plumbers Society Concert Orchestra and Dart Throwing Team”. Apparently Horenstein vowed never to work with Vox again, which ended his string of remarkable recordings made during the Fifties. I recently listened to the LSO, having purchased the Berlin Edinburgh concert reading a few years back, and I prefer the Berlin recording, which has the energy that a live performance can generate and isn’t that different sonically from the LSO studio account

[silvestrione]

Pristine Audio has three different versions of the Fifth led by Jascha Horenstein available. Two stem from a performance from a festival in Edinburgh with the Berlin PO, apparently their first acquaintance with M5. The third is with the LSO, a studio recording, from 1958 in mono regrettably (at least I think it’s mono. Pristine does this “Ambient Stereo “ thing and Andrew Rose note is somewhat vague). This may also be the LSO maiden voyage with M5.
The LSO recording was apparently commissioned by Vox, which then apparently stiffed all involved for their fees, and so it sat in the Vaults for decades. I don’t ever recall seeing a LSO recording on the Vox label. Usually the Vox Orchestras would be world class ensembles such as “The Rhinelanders Plumbers Society Concert Orchestra and Dart Throwing Team”. Apparently Horenstein vowed never to work with Vox again, which ended his string of remarkable recordings made during the Fifties. I recently listened to the LSO, having purchased the Berlin Edinburgh concert reading a few years back, and I prefer the Berlin recording, which has the energy that a live performance can generate and isn’t that different sonically from the LSO studio account

Nevertheless some of the woodwind playing on the early Vox Brendel Mozart PCs is sublime (sorry, even more off topic).