Prog Rock

[Andy2112]

Interesting thread. Glad to see we are avoiding trying to define prog. I would say that there are artists who go through a prog phase at parts of their career. Anyway, my faves...
Rush - 2112. My top artists of all time and the best work of their proggy period.
Marillion - Season's End. Still sounds good.
Yes - Tales From Topographic Oceans. Self indulgent in parts but would it be prog if it wasn't?:) Some moments of stunning beauty.
Dream Theatre. Images and Words. Astounding chops can sometimes cover for weak songs but not here.
Muse - Black Holes and Revelations. Great album. I think its prog. They probably hate the idea. Tough.
Honorable mention to Steven Wilson and Porupine Tree.

[Boilk]

Yes - Tales From Topographic Oceans. Self indulgent in parts but would it be prog if it wasn't?:) Some moments of stunning beauty.

Well yes, Topographic Oceans has its meandering moments amongst all the beauty, but with 1980s Drama Yes (albeit with a different singer and keyboardist) produced a stunning, muscular prog album without any of their 70s occasional waffling - proving it can be done.

Not unrelated to Topographic, one of the most seminal prog albums for me is Yes singer Jon Anderson's Olias of Sunhillow from 1976. In terms of its single-story narrative, highly original and potent compositions and multi-cultural scoring, it's possibly the ultimate solo prog album of the '70s decade. By comparison his bandmate Rick Wakeman's solo albums of the era sound like note-spinning mundanity.

[Richard Barrett]

one of the most seminal prog albums for me is Yes singer Jon Anderson's Olias of Sunhillow from 1976. In terms of its single-story narrative, highly original and potent compositions and multi-cultural scoring, it's possibly the ultimate solo prog album of the '70s decade. By comparison his bandmate Rick Wakeman's solo albums of the era sound like note-spinning mundanity.

That's because they are! I would quite like to have edited some of his sillier classical pastiche moments out of Close to the Edge as well. It's a shame Anderson never followed up on that album. The fairytale story and a few cloying moments aside, there are some quite beautiful things in it.

[Serial_Apologist]

That's because they are! I would quite like to have edited some of his sillier classical pastiche moments out of Close to the Edge as well. It's a shame Anderson never followed up on that album. The fairytale story and a few cloying moments aside, there are some quite beautiful things in it.

Would it be too cruel, or snobby, to say that classical pastiche, with its arriviste-appealing pseudo-veneer of authenticity, was a large part of the point for many Prog Rock adherents?

[cloughie]

Would it be too cruel, or snobby, to say that classical pastiche, with its arriviste-appealing pseudo-veneer of authenticity, was a large part of the point for many Prog Rock adherents?

...and these prog fans would claim they were not interested in classical music - their choice but maybe missing many a treat!

[Serial_Apologist]

...and these prog fans would claim they were not interested in classical music - their choice but maybe missing many a treat!

You've reminded me of a time when I was living among a milieu of Prog Rock adherents, when, one day, I put on a recording of RVW's Tallis Fantasia, and, after listening for a while, one of them saying, "Wow, there are some great rock guitar chords in this!"

[Richard Barrett]

Would it be too cruel, or snobby, to say that classical pastiche, with its arriviste-appealing pseudo-veneer of authenticity, was a large part of the point for many Prog Rock adherents?

Do you mean practitioners or listeners? (or both?) Some musicians, like the aforementioned Wakeman, seem to have enjoyed showing off their chops in that sort of way; I always found this, as I've said already, the least interesting aspect of that sort of music. At the other end of the scale there was the fairly short-lived group 0dB led by the late Tim Souster, a former student of Stockhausen, which brought the "classical" influence right up to date. Tim, who was a lovely man and a very interesting musician, later achieved a certain fame for his music for The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khn3DY9C_Xo

[Serial_Apologist]

Do you mean practitioners or listeners? (or both?) Some musicians, like the aforementioned Wakeman, seem to have enjoyed showing off their chops in that sort of way; I always found this, as I've said already, the least interesting aspect of that sort of music. At the other end of the scale there was the fairly short-lived group 0dB led by the late Tim Souster, a former student of Stockhausen, which brought the "classical" influence right up to date. Tim, who was a lovely man and a very interesting musician, later achieved a certain fame for his music for The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khn3DY9C_Xo

More the listeners, I would have to say. Yes, Tim Souster . I have the linked to 1977 LP with OdB performing tracks on one side and the wonderful "Spectral" on the other, with the part-graphic score on the inside of the gatefold. "Look, you can actually read modern music scores" I always tell my guests! He did a piece I vaguely recall being performed on Radio 3 - sadly not its title - which anticipated Pink Floyd's use of the cash register sound on "Dark Side of the Moon" - though I rather think both were pre-empted by Stockhausen's shuttlecock in his orchestral piece "Trans" of 1970! It's a shame I can't locate "La Marche" on youtube, one of Souster's very last works, before his tragic death from a stomach bug, I believe. In it he sent up nationalism and militarism brilliantly, the whole thing concluding with a male chorus coming out of the brass ensemble to deliver a version of "It's a Long Way to Tipperary" in false German accents!

[Boilk]

...He did a piece I vaguely recall being performed on Radio 3 - sadly not its title - which anticipated Pink Floyd's use of the cash register sound on "Dark Side of the Moon" - though I rather think both were pre-empted by Stockhausen's shuttlecock in his orchestral piece "Trans" of 1970!

Song of an Average City? Although it's 1974.

http://timsouster.com/index.php/works/concert-works/song-of-an-average-city/

[Serial_Apologist]

Song of an Average City? Although it's 1974.

http://timsouster.com/index.php/work...-average-city/

That would be the one. Evidently "Dark Side" was ahead by a year or so. Maybe "Song of an Average City" was a kind of riposte to it. Thanks very much for that link, Boilk - lots to investigate on that link. I well remember being really knocked out by that work: Tim Souster was a very... prescient? rounded? at any rate consequent thinker in the musical world at that time, with a great and rare sense of humour. Much to be missed. I'm trying to think of an adequate word to embrace him.

[Richard Barrett]

before his tragic death from a stomach bug, I believe.

Yes, contracted on holiday in Thailand. I remember (if I can be excused another namedrop) Brian Ferneyhough at the time telling me how shocked he was by Tim's sudden death; they were very close contemporaries of course, although I hadn't suspected that they would be friends. Another of Tim's later pieces attempting to bridge the gap between his interests in avant-garde composition and a more vernacular music was his Sonata for cello and ensemble written for the Nash Ensemble in 1979. Happily, all of his scores are now available again through Composers Edition. I hope this means they'll get played a bit more often in the future.

[teamsaint]

Just to say that from the recommendations on the thread ( thanks for all of them BTW) I have been giving a few a spin, and will be getting through more as time allows.

Some interesting things , for sure, some not as I might have expected. Caravan’s In the Land of Pink and Grey, I can imagine being just perfect for a certain time and mood, although probably not everyday listening for me.
Moody Blues’ Days of Future Passed was good to hear complete, and amongst other things does reflect the ambitious nature of some musicians , in other times.
Standout for me so far is Kevin Ayers’ Shooting at the Moon. Really outstanding , and very much up my street, and with a kind of humour that I enjoy in music.

There’s nothing like diping into music that you have mostly ignored for several decades to make you feel poorly educated.......

[MrGongGong]

More the listeners, I would have to say. Yes, Tim Souster . I have the linked to 1977 LP with OdB performing tracks on one side and the wonderful "Spectral" on the other, with the part-graphic score on the inside of the gatefold. "Look, you can actually read modern music scores" I always tell my guests! He did a piece I vaguely recall being performed on Radio 3 - sadly not its title - which anticipated Pink Floyd's use of the cash register sound on "Dark Side of the Moon" - though I rather think both were pre-empted by Stockhausen's shuttlecock in his orchestral piece "Trans" of 1970!

I think the use of recordings in compositions predates Stockhausen considerably (nerdy observation that it's a weaving shuttle NOT a badminton Shuttlecock: biggrin:) Pines of Rome for example.

Tim Sousters music is really worth listening to, this for example

[eighthobstruction]

Just to say that from the recommendations on the thread ( thanks for all of them BTW) I have been giving a few a spin, and will be getting through more as time allows.

Some interesting things , for sure, some not as I might have expected. Caravan’s In the Land of Pink and Grey, I can imagine being just perfect for a certain time and mood, although probably not everyday listening for me.
Moody Blues’ Days of Future Passed was good to hear complete, and amongst other things does reflect the ambitious nature of some musicians , in other times.
Standout for me so far is Kevin Ayers’ Shooting at the Moon. Really outstanding , and very much up my street, and with a kind of humour that I enjoy in music.

There’s nothing like diping into music that you have mostly ignored for several decades to make you feel poorly educated.......

You might enjoy Kevin Ayers....No Eggsplaination....great album....

[Boilk]

Tim Sousters music is really worth listening to, this for example
https://youtu.be/PzfE7jW0OGo

I have that Souster Nimbus CD, bought on the strength of first hearing his great flügelhorn & live electronics piece The Transistor Radio of St. Narcissus on 'Music In Our Time'. This recording on YT doesn't shine as much as that Radio 3 one, despite both being with John Wallace...