Prog Rock

[Lat-Literal]

Inter-generic fluidity in terms of categorical definitions often boils down to who was in whose band, and when - musicians taking influences, sometimes developed on, from one unit to others. Your link between Peter Gabriel and Daevid Allen has analogies with a band such as Soft Machine, whose personnel had changed ten years on from its origins around 1966. Classification is wonderful so long as one does not mistake maps for journeys - I am forever reminded of the story about the man who has had a particularly fine knife in his posession. One day a friend says to him, "I must say, you do manage to keep that knife in top condition, considering the length of time you've had it. How do you manage to keep it looking so good?" "Well", replies the other, "Every ten years, I replace the blade; and every other ten years I replace the handle!"

Back around 15 years ago, some useful people devised family trees showing which bands came out of which, and who moved between them. Like illustrated musical data bases. I derived great enjoyment from just perusing them, and still have one or two filed away somewhere.

A good story - and those family trees were a bit mind blowing.

Am I right in thinking that Fripp connects to Toyah? This is the odd thing about categories. Wyatt to Costello. Costello to Bacharach. These people actually make the leaps themselves. And Lydon wasn't quite right on the humour point. There is a lot of very, very non pc humour in Caravan and early Genesis. Wakeman is very adept at sending himself up while putting his contribution into context. Ironically, it may well be the Daevid Allens and Christian Vanders of this world who were/are more serious. After all, Steve Davis was Magma's biggest fan.

[Richard Barrett]

Inter-generic fluidity in terms of categorical definitions often boils down to who was in whose band, and when - musicians taking influences, sometimes developed on, from one unit to others. Your link between Peter Gabriel and Daevid Allen has analogies with a band such as Soft Machine, whose personnel had changed ten years on from its origins around 1966. Classification is wonderful so long as one does not mistake maps for journeys - I am forever reminded of the story about the man who has had a particularly fine knife in his posession. One day a friend says to him, "I must say, you do manage to keep that knife in top condition, considering the length of time you've had it. How do you manage to keep it looking so good?" "Well", replies the other, "Every ten years, I replace the blade; and every other ten years I replace the handle!"

Back around 15 years ago, some useful people devised family trees showing which bands came out of which, and who moved between them. Like illustrated musical data bases. I derived great enjoyment from just perusing them, and still have one or two filed away somewhere.

I was going to add: the most interesting thing about pop/rock music in the late 1960s and 1970s was the way genres in the 21st century sense didn't have much relevance to what people did and how they worked together - hence the discussion as to what is and isn't progressive rock. Back in the day I was very keen on Soft Machine (1-3 in particular, as you'd expect) and Gong, though I hadn't thought of putting them in this category. I got to know all the Genesis albums to the point when Peter Gabriel left, after which they became completely uninteresting to me, and actually the only album I really liked was The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. I always liked the idea of King Crimson, and a lot of the music too, and I think Robert Fripp is a fascinating musician in many ways, but they've never had a vocalist whose voice doesn't make me cringe. Apparently Bryan Ferry once auditioned for them - now that would have bee something special. Early Floyd also, but I really very rarely listen to that stuff now. ELP I could never stand. More esoterically there were things like Todd Rundgren's various forays in the prog direction, like the first Utopia album which I've always has a soft spot for, and the second side of Initiation which consists of a single 35-minute instrumental - that's something I return to from time to time. I didn't become aware of Henry Cow until much later, by which time they'd gone their separate ways; Winter Songs by one of the splinter groups known as Art Bears is an album I admire, along with the two albums by Fred Frith and the late Tom Cora under the name Skeleton Crew.

[Richard Barrett]

Am I right in thinking that Fripp connects to Toyah?

In the Biblical sense, indeed.

[teamsaint]

In the Biblical sense, indeed.

Imagine her singing with King Crimson..........no, actually , don't..........

[zola]

There used to be a thread not...but... or something like that ? So, in the context of this thread, not ELP but The Nice.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Back around 15 years ago, some useful people devised family trees showing which bands came out of which, and who moved between them. Like illustrated musical data bases. I derived great enjoyment from just perusing them, and still have one or two filed away somewhere.

Peter Frame? His BBC series "Rock Family Trees" began in 1995 - and his work is still on sale:

https://rockfamilytrees.co.uk/

There are individual group "trees"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b-u3L-Kt4wQ/VShFDc0G0vI/AAAAAAAAQgU/DBXobIcsDOA/s1600/pinkfloyd.jpg

... and inter-group connection trees:

https://mytraintracksblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/madchester11.jpg

[cloughie]

Imagine her singing with King Crimson..........no, actually , don't..........

It wouldn't be a mystery. Actually a female voice would have been really good inking Crimson - Julie Driscoll would have been a good match.

[cloughie]

Peter Frame? His BBC series "Rock Family Trees" began in 1995 - and his work is still on sale:

https://rockfamilytrees.co.uk/

There are individual group "trees"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b-u3L-Kt4wQ/VShFDc0G0vI/AAAAAAAAQgU/DBXobIcsDOA/s1600/pinkfloyd.jpg

... and inter-group connection trees:
https://mytraintracksblog.files.word...dchester11.jpg

A very good read.

[Lat-Literal]

Oh here we are Teamsaint. The band from Sunderland with two brothers, David Brewis and Peter Brewis, and which has also had members of Maximo Park and the Futureheads, is Field Music. I see that they are described as "progressive pop".

[teamsaint]

Peter Frame? His BBC series "Rock Family Trees" began in 1995 - and his work is still on sale:

https://rockfamilytrees.co.uk/

There are individual group "trees"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b-u3L-Kt4wQ/VShFDc0G0vI/AAAAAAAAQgU/DBXobIcsDOA/s1600/pinkfloyd.jpg

... and inter-group connection trees:
https://mytraintracksblog.files.word...dchester11.jpg

They were one of the redeeming features of Sounds.......

[teamsaint]

Oh here we are Teamsaint. The band from Sunderland with two brothers, David Brewis and Peter Brewis, and which has also had members of Maximo Park and the Futureheads, is Field Music. I see that they are described as "progressive pop":

ah, I'll give them a spin. Maximo Park were decent, IIRC....and the Futureheads were too. Thanks. good work !!

[Lat-Literal]

Field Music - But Not For You (Commontime) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLDrmfwm0yU

Looking at internet lists of recent prog rock bands, I recognise several of them. The Mars Volta is one. I was also considering the way in which I stumbled at Glastonbury on moments when prog rock met dance. Steve Hillage was taking on The Orb's influence on the grounds that they had been influenced by him. Steve Hillage's System 7. They even did a teaming up with Gong thing. I also saw a set of the Ozric Tentacles, who were a bit of everything, alongside the likes of Back To The Planet and Senser . All quite close to the dongers at the time.

Ozric Tentacles - Strangeitude (Released '91) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJvQx5QQbHE

(This, I think, is the real thing, albeit updated)

……and I'm pretty sure that these bands have been played on Late Junction : certainly Field Music have been.

[Beef Oven!]

There used to be a thread not...but... or something like that ? So, in the context of this thread, not ELP but The Nice.

Often thought about that question. There is is little of ELP’s output that I like, I probably go with The Nice, too

[cloughie]

Often thought about that question. There is is little of ELP’s output that I like, I probably go with The Nice, too

The big gain, and Crimso's loss with the transition from Nice to ELP was Gregg Lake's voice, which was infinitely better than Lee Jackson's.

[Serial_Apologist]

Often thought about that question. There is is little of ELP’s output that I like, I probably go with The Nice, too

Egg - the band of that name - was stylistically related to The Nice, doing arrangements of "essential classics" in the Radio 3 sense and composing pastiches, but also to Soft Machine in making use of odd time signatures, composing wind ensemble pieces, and experimenting with keyboards, in their case early synthesisers. They had what was I believe near-chart inclusion in 1969 with"Seven Is a Jolly Good Time", based on it being in 7 to the bar, and devised eccentric album titles, such as "The Polite Force" and "The Civil Surface", belying the "no humour" ascription above - as would Robert Wyatt. I'd have to check personnel details but I think they sort of morphed into Hatfield and the North by way of one or two entrances and exits.