Bach

[Conchis]

'Beautiful melodies, apparently endless melodic invention but the music lacks direction and doesn't 'go' anywhere. In the final analysis, it is cold and uninvolving. Bach's natural audience would seem to be intellectuals who have purged themselves of the need to feel emotion - or maybe computers who never felt emotion to begin with and so might be impressed by the 'cleverness' of a fellow machine. Also, of course, those of a religious bent - but there is nothing in the Mass in B Minor or either of the Passions to appeal to the non-believer. And it remains a mystery how a man who begat so many children could produce music so entirely lacking in any form of sensuality.'


Thoughts?

[Joseph K]

Complete rubbish.

I'm currently learning BWV 998 and 1000. The music is so incredibly profound, so unutterably satisfying to play and listen to... I find it incomprehensible that anyone other than the most cloth-eared could find the music lacks direction... all the modulations are effortless, the sequences are perfect and positively ooze exquisiteness.

[Bryn]

'Beautiful melodies, apparently endless melodic invention but the music lacks direction and doesn't 'go' anywhere. In the final analysis, it is cold and uninvolving. Bach's natural audience would seem to be intellectuals who have purged themselves of the need to feel emotion - or maybe computers who never felt emotion to begin with and so might be impressed by the 'cleverness' of a fellow machine. Also, of course, those of a religious bent - but there is nothing in the Mass in B Minor or either of the Passions to appeal to the non-believer. And it remains a mystery how a man who begat so many children could produce music so entirely lacking in any form of sensuality.'


Thoughts?

Der?! Cornelius Cardew (an atheist who started the day with Bach) used to go on about how Bach's music dripped with religion from ever note. I find the cello suite's for instance, oozing with sensuality, though others, I know, find them morbid.

Whatever:

[pastoralguy]

I find that as I get older, Bach is the composer I turn to the most. Yes, I still enjoy Tchaikovsky and the great romantics but there's a simplicity in Bach that I find irresistible. (Bearing in mind that Bach is the most difficult of all composers to play well!)

The Goldberg Variations seem to mean more to me in every passing year and the keyboard music is simply incredible. Probably my favourite Bach are the 'cello suites and I look forward to hearing the new Yo-Yo Ma recording tomorrow.

[Richard Barrett]

Thoughts?

Who said that I wonder. I incline more in this direction:

"Not so many people believe in God these days, but every musician believes in Bach." (Mauricio Kagel)

[Conchis]

Who said that I wonder. I incline more in this direction:

"Not so many people believe in God these days, but every musician believes in Bach." (Mauricio Kagel)

Apparently, it was Glenn Gould - playing devil's advocate.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Thoughts?

Are they? Rather just a few sentences strung together to provoke heated responses?

(Oh - yes, I see! )

[Richard Tarleton]

I'm currently learning BWV 998 and 1000. The music is so incredibly profound, so unutterably satisfying to play and listen to...

The entry of the double fugue in 998 - the emotional heart of this piece, possibly the first Bach piece I connected with, aged 15, on a guitar LP (Oscar Giglia, as it happens). A connection at every level - I didn't know it was a double fugue, or what one was, but the piece seemed structurally perfect and emotionally profound (Ghiglia didn't even play the Allegro). Then I was introduced to the cello suites....then the violin partitas and sonatas....and so on. I came across the Bream 1957 Westminster Bach LP soon afterwards.

[Joseph K]

The entry of the double fugue in 998 - the emotional heart of this piece, possibly the first Bach piece I connected with, aged 15, on a guitar LP (Oscar Giglia, as it happens). A connection at every level - I didn't know it was a double fugue, or what one was, but the piece seemed structurally perfect and emotionally profound (Ghiglia didn't even play the Allegro). Then I was introduced to the cello suites....then the violin partitas and sonatas....and so on. I came across the Bream 1957 Westminster Bach LP soon afterwards.

The great thing is also that the music sounds just as good at a slower tempo, so it encourages you to keep on playing even if your technique isn't yet up to scratch.

I feel like I've been had though, like a fish who's taken the bait, if this really was Gould.

[Conchis]

The great thing is also that the music sounds just as good at a slower tempo, so it encourages you to keep on playing even if your technique isn't yet up to scratch.

I feel like I've been had though, like a fish who's taken the bait, if this really was Gould.

He said something similarly scathing about Mozart. Probably just a man working through his doubts.

I’ll admit, I have never properly connected with Bach, which is why the quote resonated with me, I don’t doubt that it’s ‘great’ but it’s never moved me as much as I feel it should. Tho closest I come to appreciation is the Doppelviolin Concerto, but even then I only seem to like politically incorrect non-HIP performances.

[MickyD]

Apparently, it was Glenn Gould - playing devil's advocate.

Well, that doesn't surprise me. I have never understood the adoration over Gould...his performances leave me totally unmoved, however much I try to listen to them.

[oddoneout]

He said something similarly scathing about Mozart. Probably just a man working through his doubts.

I’ll admit, I have never properly connected with Bach, which is why the quote resonated with me, I don’t doubt that it’s ‘great’ but it’s never moved me as much as I feel it should. Tho closest I come to appreciation is the Doppelviolin Concerto, but even then I only seem to like politically incorrect non-HIP performances.

This is at the root of many people's 'difficulties' with Bach I think. Knowing that it is great music but being unable to connect with it is hard - made more so by well-meaning or intolerant folks saying 'Oh but you must like/appreciate this' resulting in feelings of inadequacy/guilt/resentment when you don't.
At the risk of being somewhat catty I would say that Gould's recordings of Bach's keyboard works are not in my view the best way to persuade someone to connect with Bach. The instrumental and choral works are better for cherry-picking - as a viola player Brandenburg 6 in a non-Hipp performance is one I like to try.

[Richard Tarleton]

as a viola player Brandenburg 6 in a non-Hipp performance is one I like to try.

Brandenburg 6 was another light bulb moment in the early stages of my Bach journey, in a live student performance half a century ago (I'm in reflective mood today ) .....

[Joseph K]

Well, that doesn't surprise me. I have never understood the adoration over Gould...his performances leave me totally unmoved, however much I try to listen to them.

I always like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD0aDZiUgIE

[richardfinegold]

I find that as I get older, Bach is the composer I turn to the most. Yes, I still enjoy Tchaikovsky and the great romantics but there's a simplicity in Bach that I find irresistible. (Bearing in mind that Bach is the most difficult of all composers to play well!)

The Goldberg Variations seem to mean more to me in every passing year and the keyboard music is simply incredible. Probably my favourite Bach are the 'cello suites and I look forward to hearing the new Yo-Yo Ma recording tomorrow.

If you’re sober, PG, any thoughts on the new Ma recording? I have the new set and his first set. The newer one has a few rough sounding spots but seems very characterful compared with his younger self