Holst and Vaughan Williams: Making Music English - BBC2, Sat Nov 17th

[Serial_Apologist]

I couldn't agree more. It was informative, visually arresting (something that not all TV producers seem to realize), it didn't patronise the viewer, and the presenters didn't let their evident love of the music descend into self-indulgence. The device of having them recreate the two composers' works was very successful IMO. I'm normally not an admirer of Tom Service, but on this occasion he (thankfully) abandoned his customary erratic machine gun-like delivery and both he and Amanda Vickery pitched their contributions perfectly.
It would be nice to think that somebody out there heard some of this wonderful music for the first time, including the Tallis Fantasia, which is the piece that I would rescue from the waves on DID. Anybody introduced, in particular, to the music of Vaughan Williams by this programme has many pleasures to look forward to!
The photo of the two composers walking in the Malvern Hills was taken by William Whittaker.

Yes, that last point was interesting news to me! Not many people at all know of William Whittaker (1876-1944) as a friend of Holst and Vaughan Williams and fine composer in his own right, especially for choirs, and who went on to teach at Glasgow University. My connection to his name came courtesy of research I was undertaking on the black jazz double bass player Coleridge Goode, who studied under Whittaker when he first came to Britain from Jamaica in 1934 as a putative engineering student. Coleridge was destined to play with Django Reinhardt on visits to the UK and later played a vital part in Joe Harriott's Free Form jazz period of the early 1960s. He lived until almost 101 years of age - I met him as a doughty centenarian at one of Michael Garrick's solo piano gigs. Small world!

[Nevilevelis]

Could someone list the background music, please? It was not listed in the credits. RVW - Fantasia on Christmas Carols. Holst - St. Paul's Suite...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes, that last point was interesting news to me! Not many people at all know of William Whittaker (1876-1944) as a friend of Holst and Vaughan Williams and fine composer in his own right, especially for choirs, and who went on to teach at Glasgow University.

Didn't Gramophone regularly feature a full/half-page black & white advert for an LP recording of Whitaker's Music called Blow the Wind Southerly? IIRC, it ran for month after month in the years before the CD age.

This one:

[ardcarp]

.... it didn't patronise the viewer, and the presenters didn't let their evident love of the music descend into self-indulgence. The device of having them recreate the two composers' works was very successful IMO. I'm normally not an admirer of Tom Service, but on this occasion he (thankfully) abandoned his customary erratic machine gun-like delivery and both he and Amanda Vickery pitched their contributions perfectly.

Well, one man's meat, etc, but...

It would be nice to think that somebody out there heard some of this wonderful music for the first time, including the Tallis Fantasia, which is the piece that I would rescue from the waves on DID. Anybody introduced, in particular, to the music of Vaughan Williams by this programme has many pleasures to look forward to!

...I agree with you wholeheartedly there.

[oddoneout]

Bit curate's egg for me. I struggle with talking over music, and couldn't watch either of the presenters when they were doing their talking slots. The shots of countryside were lovely though and the unadulterated bits of music also. I did wish that we could have been permitted to properly hear at least some of the sung Tallis theme before launching into the Fantasia. Overall it was better than I had expected.
For the more general audience I imagine this could have been a rewarding programme - glorious English scenes and music, and approachable talking head contributions, but in FoR3 circles there will always I suspect be a sense of things that could have been done better/differently.

[Andrew Slater]

Could someone list the background music, please? It was not listed in the credits. RVW - Fantasia on Christmas Carols. Holst - St. Paul's Suite...

Holst: Egdon Heath ....

[LMcD]

Bit curate's egg for me. I struggle with talking over music, and couldn't watch either of the presenters when they were doing their talking slots. The shots of countryside were lovely though and the unadulterated bits of music also. I did wish that we could have been permitted to properly hear at least some of the sung Tallis theme before launching into the Fantasia. Overall it was better than I had expected.
For the more general audience I imagine this could have been a rewarding programme - glorious English scenes and music, and approachable talking head contributions, but in FoR3 circles there will always I suspect be a sense of things that could have been done better/differently.

I think it was definitely aimed at the more general audience, and therefore unlikely to please all members of the FoR3 circle (although it clearly pleased some of us ...). It could have been done differently but, given its presumed objective, I'm not sure it could have been done better.

[secondfiddle]

This programme is being shown again tonight on BBC 2 at 12.15 a.m.

[Nevilevelis]

Holst: Egdon Heath ....

That was played to camera and discussed. Was it also part of the background music? There was a section with strings followed the entrance of a bassoon. Was that from Egdon Heath?

Perhaps Pabs will know.

[Stanfordian]

I think it was definitely aimed at the more general audience, and therefore unlikely to please all members of the FoR3 circle (although it clearly pleased some of us ...). It could have been done differently but, given its presumed objective, I'm not sure it could have been done better.

Those familiar with the life and music of Holst and Vaughan Williams would discover little new I guess but I'm glad I watched the programme, agreeable and nicely shot with snippets of some wonderful music. It's a mystery to me why their music doesn't travel too well. A few years ago a renowned international violinist who I interviewed who had recently added The Lark Ascending to her repertoire asked me if I knew it.

[Andrew Slater]

That was played to camera and discussed. Was it also part of the background music? There was a section with strings followed the entrance of a bassoon. Was that from Egdon Heath?

Perhaps Pabs will know.

There was a bit from Egdon Heath in the background a while before it was discussed explicitly (immediately after Mars - Holst during WW1). Not sure about the bassoon though. I'll have another listen .....

mmmm... The bit from Fantasia on Christmas Carols that I heard comes very close to the end. Then there seems to be a random bit of bassoon underneath Amanda Vickery speaking, then a bit from the last movement of the St Paul's Suite, which continues during the closing credits. (But nothing else afterwards.) Is that the bit you meant?

The only other unmentioned snippets I heard were from the first and last movements of the Brook Green Suite (Holst), nearer the beginning.

[Nevilevelis]

There was a bit from Egdon Heath in the background a while before it was discussed explicitly (immediately after Mars - Holst during WW1). Not sure about the bassoon though. I'll have another listen .....

mmmm... The bit from Fantasia on Christmas Carols that I heard comes very close to the end. Then there seems to be a random bit of bassoon underneath Amanda Vickery speaking, then a bit from the last movement of the St Paul's Suite, which continues during the closing credits. (But nothing else afterwards.) Is that the bit you meant?

The only other unmentioned snippets I heard were from the first and last movements of the Brook Green Suite (Holst), nearer the beginning.

Brook Green Suite probably firms up the list, but yes, the string section followed by a bassoon (by whom) is alluding me. I'll have a listen to the brook Green Suite.

Thanks!

NVV

[Andrew Slater]

Brook Green Suite probably firms up the list, but yes, the string section followed by a bassoon (by whom) is alluding me. I'll have a listen to the brook Green Suite.

Thanks!

NVV

I think it was actually the second and third movements of the BGS, but I don't remember an associated bassoon.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If somebody could give a timing in the programme were this bassoon bit is heard, it might prove helpful.

[Nevilevelis]

If somebody could give a timing in the programme were this bassoon bit is heard, it might prove helpful.

Sure - starts at c. 48.31

NVV