Do Current Conductors Measure Up To The Greats Of The Past?

[Beef Oven!]

I imagine a lot of the people who'd say current conductors don't measure up to the greats of the past would say the same about composers.

Interesting. I don't feel that way about conductors. I think the contemporaries match up very well and will be held in similar esteem when they and we are all dead and gone.

I'd protest the same about composers, but ask me who my preferred ones are and they are all 'greats from the past'.

[Stanfordian]

Interesting. I don't feel that way about conductors. I think the contemporaries match up very well and will be held in similar esteem when they and we are all dead and gone.

I'd protest the same about composers, but ask me who my preferred ones are and they are all 'greats from the past'.

[richardfinegold]

Things are so different today. For one, the Conductors of today are farther removed from the core repertoire than previously. Toscanini conducted the premiere of Aida, and gave the first Italian performance of The Nutcracker. Monteux played the first French performance of a Brahms Quartet and then drank beer with the Composer afterward.Thizs was contemporary Music for them, or else they had studied with Musicians who had worked with the Composers. That is something that even the most talented of today’s Conductors will lack.

[Beef Oven!]

Things are so different today. For one, the Conductors of today are farther removed from the core repertoire than previously. Toscanini conducted the premiere of Aida, and gave the first Italian performance of The Nutcracker. Monteux played the first French performance of a Brahms Quartet and then drank beer with the Composer afterward.Thizs was contemporary Music for them, or else they had studied with Musicians who had worked with the Composers. That is something that even the most talented of today’s Conductors will lack.

I'm not sure I quite get your point. Probably me being a bit thick! What do you see as core repertoire? Can't Arne Deforce have a post-gig peach schnapps with Richard Barrett like Monteux had a beer with Brahms?

[Richard Barrett]

This was contemporary Music for them, or else they had studied with Musicians who had worked with the Composers. That is something that even the most talented of today’s Conductors will lack.

What a profoundly weird thing to say! Today's conductors couldn't have a beer with Brahms but then Monteux couldn't have had a margarita with Mozart - so what?

[richardfinegold]

It’s the proximity to the creators. There has to be some advantage to living in the time when the music was created, or working with people who had that proximity

[cloughie]

It’s the proximity to the creators. There has to be some advantage to living in the time when the music was created, or working with people who had that proximity

So are you saying that there are no great composers today for our conductors to have a bevvy with!

[Petrushka]

It’s the proximity to the creators. There has to be some advantage to living in the time when the music was created, or working with people who had that proximity

This is more interesting than it seems at first sight. In considering the 'great conductors' active in my own lifetime we can see a direct connection with, for example, Kempe/Karajan/Böhm to Richard Strauss, Monteux to Stravinsky, Solti and Reiner to Bartok, Walter and Klemperer to Mahler, Boult to Elgar, Mravinsky (and others) to Shostakovich. Böhm was taught by someone who was himself taught by Brahms. There must be other examples interwoven within the fabric of musical interpretation and we are incredibly lucky to have them on disc.

In the past 20 years or so these connections have gradually been broken as one generation has succeeded another. The present day conductor lacks what the previous generations had and do not seem to be associated so much with the promotion of living composers. Perhaps this is why the 'great conductors' still exercise so much power over present day collectors. An interesting topic.

[gradus]

It’s the proximity to the creators. There has to be some advantage to living in the time when the music was created, or working with people who had that proximity

I think there's something in that. For example, pianists like to talk about their teachers' pedigrees, link back to composers or great players who worked with composers, as evidence that their interpretation of a work is legitimate. Maybe it's only a feeling personal to me but knowing that a conductor knew or worked with a composer somehow adds to the experience of listening to his/her interpretation of the music eg Walter/VPO in the Mahler 9.

[cloughie]

This is more interesting than it seems at first sight. In considering the 'great conductors' active in my own lifetime we can see a direct connection with, for example, Kempe/Karajan/Böhm to Richard Strauss, Monteux to Stravinsky, Solti and Reiner to Bartok, Walter and Klemperer to Mahler, Boult to Elgar, Mravinsky (and others) to Shostakovich. Böhm was taught by someone who was himself taught by Brahms. There must be other examples interwoven within the fabric of musical interpretation and we are incredibly lucky to have them on disc.

In the past 20 years or so these connections have gradually been broken as one generation has succeeded another. The present day conductor lacks what the previous generations had and do not seem to be associated so much with the promotion of living composers. Perhaps this is why the 'great conductors' still exercise so much power over present day collectors. An interesting topic.

I think also that many, though not all, of today’s composers conduct their own work.

[DracoM]

Why is Scandinavia producing some of the most dynamic conductors on the scene?
Genuione question.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think also that many, though not all, of today’s composers conduct their own work.

??? But so did Mahler, Strauss, Elgar, Stravinsky, Britten, Brahms, Wagner, Liszt ...

[Richard Barrett]

There has to be some advantage to living in the time when the music was created, or working with people who had that proximity

There has to be? That's an assertion that needs examining. I would say (staying within the 20th century) that present-day performances of Le Sacre du printemps, or La mer, or Mahler's symphonies, to say nothing of Schoenberg or his circle, will represent in many ways an immense improvement on the first and early performances of that music. Plus, we are of course now living in a time when music is being created, and, if conductors choose not to acknowledge that, it's everyone's loss.

As for today's composers conducting their own work, I would say there are at least as many who don't, or at least who only do as an absolute last resort.

[Conchis]

I am somewhat sceptical of the HIPP movement because, while it might be 'interesting' hear, say, Die Zauberflote played with the size of orchestra Mozart would have worked with and with the instruments used in his time, I'm unconvinced the performance is 'better' for being 'more authentic'. And I don't agree that what the composer had to settle for is the same as what the composer would, ideally, have wanted.

[Richard Barrett]

And I don't agree that what the composer had to settle for is the same as what the composer would, ideally, have wanted.

I hear the reopening of a very large can of worms there. But: composers in general don't "have to settle for" less than what they "would. ideally have wanted"; they are inspired by, and write idiomatically for, what is available to them. Some people seem to have very strange ideas about how composers think!