'The second eleven'

[gradus]

Our local paper publishes pages from the past every Monday and today's was from 6 August 1970. The front page carried a story about Sir Adrian Boult refusing to conduct the LSO in the EMI recording of Enigma and Job as five principals had sent deputies for the session. Boult apparently referred to the orchestra as fielding 'the second eleven' and suggested EMI find another orchestra, both works being particularly dear to him.
The LSO's general manager claimed he knew nothing about it and the episode ended with Stuart Knussen, who was then the chairman of the LSO, writing and apologising to Sir Adrian.
I couldn't imagine any newspaper especially a provincial daily covering such a story today but I wonder if any conductor nowadays ever refuses to conduct for the same reason.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Goes up in my estimation even more.... quite apart from his recorded legacy. (I was only lucky to see/hear him live twice).

(Am I wrong in recollecting that part of the reasons for the very formation of the LSO was to preserve the right of players to put in deputies? I'm sure there is an example somewhere on these threads that deputies appeared for a rehearsal (not the LSO in this example) and when the conductor referred to what they would need to do in the performance they told him they were only engaged to deputise for the rehearsal......).

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I remember the occasion well. Good for him!

[gradus]

Yes I seem to remember reading about that too.

[Bryn]

Not a local paper, but Private Eye's 'Lunchtime O'Booze' often covered the dep. scandal of the LSO, back in the day.

[Pabmusic]

Goes up in my estimation even more.... quite apart from his recorded legacy. (I was only lucky to see/hear him live twice).

(Am I wrong in recollecting that part of the reasons for the very formation of the LSO was to preserve the right of players to put in deputies? I'm sure there is an example somewhere on these threads that deputies appeared for a rehearsal (not the LSO in this example) and when the conductor referred to what they would need to do in the performance they told him they were only engaged to deputise for the rehearsal......).

Spot on! That's exactly how the LSO came about.

Someone once told me of a conductor (Wood?) who was exasperated at the number of deputies at rehearsals. (This was in the day when you could have 6 or 7 rehearsals.) But he noticed a bass player who'd been at every rehearsal, so he sought him out to congratulate him.

"Thank you" said the bass player, "It's just a pity I can't do the concert..."

[BBMmk2]

I’m not sure myself, but dies this practice still go on?

[Bergonzi]

Probably not - but I'm no longer in the know any more.

Boult was normally very easy going, and would put up with a lot of fooling around. In fact in a sort of subtle way, he joined in and he would be responsible for a lot of laughs during rehearsal (and occasionally during concerts too!) A fine musician though, and not many of his calibre around these days.

He could often be seen in the local greaser and also on London busses too. I really admired him.

[Stanfordian]

Our local paper publishes pages from the past every Monday and today's was from 6 August 1970. The front page carried a story about Sir Adrian Boult refusing to conduct the LSO in the EMI recording of Enigma and Job as five principals had sent deputies for the session. Boult apparently referred to the orchestra as fielding 'the second eleven' and suggested EMI find another orchestra, both works being particularly dear to him.
The LSO's general manager claimed he knew nothing about it and the episode ended with Stuart Knussen, who was then the chairman of the LSO, writing and apologising to Sir Adrian.
I couldn't imagine any newspaper especially a provincial daily covering such a story today but I wonder if any conductor nowadays ever refuses to conduct for the same reason.

Maybe through attending a public school he'd be more likely to have said second fifteen.

[Pabmusic]

Probably not - but I'm no longer in the know any more.

Boult was normally very easy going, and would put up with a lot of fooling around. In fact in a sort of subtle way, he joined in and he would be responsible for a lot of laughs during rehearsal (and occasionally during concerts too!) A fine musician though, and not many of his calibre around these days.

He could often be seen in the local greaser and also on London busses too. I really admired him.

Indeed. He almost always travelled to conducting engagements by bus and tube.

[Bryn]

Indeed. He almost always travelled to conducting engagements by bus and tube.

A bit like the late Lord Longford then. He was an inveterate bus traveler.

[Pabmusic]

A bit like the late aLord Longford then. He was an inveterate bus traveler.

Ah yes. And I've met him too (he had egg stains on his tie, but it hardly noticed, so unkempt was he).

[Bryn]

Ah yes. And I've met him too (he had egg stains on his tie, but it hardly noticed, so unkempt was he).

Well, when I traveled with him on a number 19 bus he appeared dressed as well as any of the other passengers. Mind you, in those days the maximum bus fare was 12p.

[Pabmusic]

Well, when I traveled with him on a number 19 bus he appeared dressed as well as any of the other passengers. Mind you, in those days the maximum bus fare was 12p.

I met him in the 1980s at Coldingley Prison to discuss a case.

[gradus]

Returning for a moment to the original posting, does anyone know of conductors these days refusing to conduct because of player/section leader substitutions. Some orchestras seem to have several leaders eg BBCSO, do section principals leaders do the same?