Daniele Gatti Sacked by the Concertgebouw

[greenilex]

I think they prefer the music to take its shoes off at the door...

[richardfinegold]

It could be that they'll want a conductor who's going to change the direction of the RCO's core repertoire, which for example in its pre-Haitink days lent it a strong reputation for performances of French music. Everyone does Mahler now. Strangely, in a city where contemporary music generally has quite a high profile, the RCO probably plays less recent repertoire than even the London orchestras do.

You would of course know about Contemporary Music than virtually most people here, or anywhere, but a few months ago I was considering buying a large collection issued by the Orchestra of recorded concerts, and I was impressed by the amount of New Music in the collection. It was certainly a much larger percentage of the total than what the big Orchestras here offer

[Sir Velo]

However, I hope that due care has been taken re the allegations. It's not completely unheard of for people to either misunderstand, or make false accusations.

It has to be said that this sorry saga has been handled catastrophically by the RCO. Whatever the truth or otherwise of the allegations the orchestra's reputation has been tarnished irrevocably by this tawdry little tale. I'm surprised that the orchestra didn't go to Gatti and offer him the chance to resign on grounds of "ill health" or even "musical differences". If the claims were supportable then Gatti would surely have taken this option; his reputation and the orchestra's would have been saved this public mauling. If they're not completely watertight then Gatti may well be in a position to counter with a claim for unfair dismissal.

[Richard Barrett]

You would of course know about Contemporary Music than virtually most people here, or anywhere, but a few months ago I was considering buying a large collection issued by the Orchestra of recorded concerts, and I was impressed by the amount of New Music in the collection. It was certainly a much larger percentage of the total than what the big Orchestras here offer

Actually you're right, as far as the 2000s are concerned - I lived just behind the Concertgebouw for most of the 1990s, went to many of their concerts and never heard anything particularly recent, but their series of live CDs made more recently does tell a somewhat different story, to my surprise. (Even if their idea of contemporary music is the "undisturbing for classical audiences" variety!)

[cloughie]

It could be that they'll want a conductor who's going to change the direction of the RCO's core repertoire, which for example in its pre-Haitink days lent it a strong reputation for performances of French music. Everyone does Mahler now. Strangely, in a city where contemporary music generally has quite a high profile, the RCO probably plays less recent repertoire than even the London orchestras do.

I’m not sure how true this is. We are talking here about Van Beinum and Jochum - yes there was the odd Debussy recording, but the core German and Austrian composers were very much to the fore - Bruckner, Brahms very much to the fore!

[cloughie]

That's an interesting suggestion - and he has conducted the orchestra reasonably recently. What I've heard on disc (Martinu etc) and from ORF concerts via 'Orchestra on Demand' has usually been interesting - he doesn't conduct on auto-pilot. But would he be able to take on the RCO's core repertoire - Mahler, Mahler and more Mahler - as well as the 3 Bs? They might go for Ivan Fischer pro tem as he is a frequent guest with the orchestra. Not, though, Simon Rattle as I seem to remember that he has only conducted them once and that that was not a marriage made in heaven. I'm probably completely wrong, though.

Ivan Fischer might be a good fit, by no means old in conducting terms at 67, but maybe they would seek someone younger. Ilan Volkov made a good impression at BBCSO a few years ago, where is his career at the moment?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It has to be said that this sorry saga has been handled catastrophically by the RCO. Whatever the truth or otherwise of the allegations the orchestra's reputation has been tarnished irrevocably by this tawdry little tale. I'm surprised that the orchestra didn't go to Gatti and offer him the chance to resign on grounds of "ill health" or even "musical differences". If the claims were supportable then Gatti would surely have taken this option; his reputation and the orchestra's would have been saved this public mauling. If they're not completely watertight then Gatti may well be in a position to counter with a claim for unfair dismissal.

Except that that type of "reputation-saving" sounds very much like how certain international charities mishandled "allegations" about their own staff in recent years.

[Bryn]

I’m not sure how true this is. We are talking here about Van Beinum and Jochum - yes there was the odd Debussy recording, but the core German and Austrian composers were very much to the fore - Bruckner, Brahms very much to the fore!

And surely, Haitink did much more to promote Ravel and Debussy with this orchestra.

[Dave2002]

Except that that type of "reputation-saving" sounds very much like how certain international charities mishandled "allegations" about their own staff in recent years.

And one very renowned orchestra appeared to keep some "common knowledge" under wraps for many years. Getting the balance right must be very difficult - not every accuser is justified, but keeping those in power in place in order to keep a high profile, and to ignore problems when they become apparent to organisations seems not to be a good strategy either these days.

As suggested earlier in this thread, musical ability and inspirational talent is not necessarily always commensurate with being a decent human being at all times.

[greenilex]

Always difficult to balance group loyalty/solidarity against demands of wider morality, when as in the case of medical institutions a musical entity feels that it and only it knows the score...

[Petrushka]

Except that that type of "reputation-saving" sounds very much like how certain international charities mishandled "allegations" about their own staff in recent years.

The RCO were between a rock and a hard place with this. Damned if they didn't take decisive action and damned if they did. My only concern, as in most of these cases, is that due process has flown out of the window. I agree with a previous suggestion that Gatti should have been forced to resign for reasons of 'musical difficulties' which would have been close enough to the truth, I think. If Gatti broke any laws then due process should be followed.

[Richard Barrett]

I’m not sure how true this is. We are talking here about Van Beinum and Jochum - yes there was the odd Debussy recording, but the core German and Austrian composers were very much to the fore - Bruckner, Brahms very much to the fore!

Van Beinum was also very involved in French music, wasn't he? Well, I'm a bit out of my depth here, maybe I should stop digging...

[Beef Oven!]

Gatti is a victim of racism. A culturally insensitive handling of this issue.

[Dave2002]

I agree with a previous suggestion that Gatti should have been forced to resign for reasons of 'musical difficulties' which would have been close enough to the truth, I think.

Sorry, I don't agree with that. "Musical difficulties" may be a justifiable reason, but not as a cover up for something else. It seems fairly clear why the RCO has decided to terminate the contract. Presumably they consulted sufficiently widely to be sure of their grounds. If they'd wanted to terminate for musical reasons they might have been able to do so earlier, or simply wait.

If there was a "rush to judgement" then that might be seen as a failing - ideally to have been avoided.

[Petrushka]

Sorry, I don't agree with that. "Musical difficulties" may be a justifiable reason, but not as a cover up for something else. It seems fairly clear why the RCO has decided to terminate the contract. Presumably they consulted sufficiently widely to be sure of their grounds. If they'd wanted to terminate for musical reasons they might have been able to do so earlier, or simply wait.

If there was a "rush to judgement" then that might be seen as a failing - ideally to have been avoided.

Sorry I meant 'musical differences' - must have been the heat. It's been clear for some time (see the thread for the Bruckner 9 Prom last September if in doubt) that things were not going well between Gatti and the RCO. I attended their Prom the following evening, a routine performance of the Mahler 4 that never came to life. The Bruckner was simply atrocious.

Richardfinegold's comment above that the RCO seized the opportunity offered while the going was good doesn't seem that unlikely to me. In addition, some arts organisations have been slow to act in cases of abuse so the decisive action from the RCO in the wake of the Washington Post article is significant.