Originally posted by Pabmusic
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Composers quoting other composers
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Richard Tarleton
Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View PostStrauss quotes Bruch Violin Concerto (2nd movement) & Beethoven 5th Symphony (finale coda) in his Alpine Symphony - the "summit" and "climbing" themes.
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Originally posted by Bryn View PostAhem. Don't you mean Lehar, re. the Bartok?
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Originally posted by Pabmusic View PostMartinu uses the Beethoven 5/BBC wartime motif in the Memorial to Lidice - very prominently too.
And a glance through the thread failed to spot Bartok's quote from DSCH Leningrad, which is used rudely in the Concerto for Orchestra.[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]
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Originally posted by Pabmusic View PostNo, Bryn - it's the long sequential passage in which (?) German tanks roll on and on. But it does sound like Lehar (maybe that's what Bartok was getting at). In any case, Bartok wasn't impressed.[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]
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Originally posted by Pabmusic View PostNo, Bryn - it's the long sequential passage in which (?) German tanks roll on and on. But it does sound like Lehar (maybe that's what Bartok was getting at). In any case, Bartok wasn't impressed.
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Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View PostSpeaking of Martinu and DSCH - the Soviet composer's "signature motto" (transposed down a major third) is very clearly belted out in the Second Movement of the Czech's Sixth Symphony.
For I am under the same accusation
With my Savior,
For they said,
He is besides himself.
For the officers of the peace
Are at variance with me,
And the watchman smites me
With his staff.
For the silly fellow, silly fellow,
Is against me,
And belongeth neither to me
Nor to my family.
The four syllables of "silly fellow" are set explicitly to the DSCH signature motto (not sure about transposition etc issues, but it's the motto alright)...."...the isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."
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Originally posted by Bryn View PostBut the point is that the repeated motif in the Shostakovich (and the Bartok) is widely held to be a reference to Hitler's love of the Lehar. The story of Bartok's use being aimed at Shostakovich is apocryphal. There is no direct record of Bartok having assertaed such. Antal Dorati made a somewhat equivocal assertion that Bartok did not know the Merry Widow, so the tilt must have been at Shostakovish. However, Bartok's son Peter is quoted as stating "one thing is certain, my father was not quoting the symphony- he was quoting from a cabaret song." Again, why would a confirmed anti-Nazi like Bartok have chosen to mock what was clearly seen as an anti-Nazi work by Shostakovich?
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Originally posted by Caliban View PostYes! And the most moving use of DSCH for me, more of a statement of solidarity than a mere quote, is the use by Britten of the signature motto repeatedly in the section of Rejoice in the Lamb about the protagonist "at variance" with the authorities, beaten and accused of madness:
For I am under the same accusation
With my Savior,
For they said,
He is besides himself.
For the officers of the peace
Are at variance with me,
And the watchman smites me
With his staff.
For the silly fellow, silly fellow,
Is against me,
And belongeth neither to me
Nor to my family.
The four syllables of "silly fellow" are set explicitly to the DSCH signature motto (not sure about transposition etc issues, but it's the motto alright)....Last edited by rauschwerk; 16-07-18, 11:40.
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Originally posted by Caliban View PostYes! And the most moving use of DSCH for me, more of a statement of solidarity than a mere quote, is the use by Britten of the signature motto repeatedly in the section of Rejoice in the Lamb about the protagonist "at variance" with the authorities, beaten and accused of madness:
For I am under the same accusation
With my Savior,
For they said,
He is besides himself.
For the officers of the peace
Are at variance with me,
And the watchman smites me
With his staff.
For the silly fellow, silly fellow,
Is against me,
And belongeth neither to me
Nor to my family.
The four syllables of "silly fellow" are set explicitly to the DSCH signature motto (not sure about transposition etc issues, but it's the motto alright)....[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]
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Originally posted by rauschwerk View PostYes, but the DSCH motto had not yet appeared in Shotakovich's own music!"...the isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."
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