The Envy of the World?

[Jonathan]

I used to have a copy of the book "The Envy of the World" - I sold it as it was something I never got around to reading.

OG - was this shop "Philip Martin Music"? If so, I've shopped in there for years, often looking in the music section for anything of interest!

[Old Grumpy]

No, this was a general bookshop. I can't remember the name, but a quick internet search suggests it may have been Fossgate Books.

Mrs OG commented that this is what a bookshop looks like when it is run by a man who is a nerd! (If that rings a bell).

OG

[Bryn]

No, this was a general bookshop. I can't remember the name, but a quick internet search suggests it may have been Fossgate Books.

Mrs OG commented that this is what a bookshop looks like when it is run by a man who is a nerd! (If that rings a bell).

OG

Ah, a proper bookshop, then,

[Jonathan]

Indeed Bryn!

OG, I have looked in that shop a few times but never found anything of interest, at least to date. I'll have to have a look next time I'm in York and see what else they've got.

[Old Grumpy]

Ah, a proper bookshop, then,

[oddoneout]

"She is the Radio 3 breakfast presenter whose chatty style has won a new audience yet infuriated classical music purists. But Clemency Burton-Hill has defended her inclusive approach, telling the high culture “gatekeepers” that it’s time to come down from their ivory towers."
And her indignation has absolutely nothing to do with criticisms of her style and manner which some ungrateful people may have made.....? Nor the possible merest suggestion that the 'new audience' has come at the expense of the existing audience?

Why do managers and broadcasters find it so difficult to understand that there are needs and requirements on both sides,

Is it that they find it difficult to understand, or that trying to do a halfway decent job for both sides takes too much effort for not enough tick box benefit?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

What is "inclusive" about CB-H's "approach"?

[french frank]

What is "inclusive" about CB-H's "approach"?

She reaches out to a broad and diverse audience - because the arts and music are for everyone, you know, not just the privileged.

Oh, you mean, like, describe what she does that's inclusive? Um … she insists on playing Gerry and the Pacemakers' version of Ferry 'Cross the Mersey. That's very inclusive. And actually quite exclusive too because it's not what many people want to hear on Radio 3. But I suppose they're the gatekeepers of high culture in their ivory towers, do you think?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

actually quite exclusive too

This is what I mean. If she rejects those she chooses to describe "gatekeepers in ivory towers" (not even giving them credit for all the stairs they have to climb in order to get from the tower to the gates and back),then she's excluding them, isn't she? She has chosen whom she wishes to include (privileging them) and points her finger at everyone else saying "Not you, nor you, nor you ... ".

[french frank]

This is what I mean. If she rejects those she chooses to describe "gatekeepers in ivory towers" (not even giving them credit for all the stairs they have to climb in order to get from the tower to the gates and back),then she's excluding them, isn't she? She has chosen whom she wishes to include (privileging them) and points her finger at everyone else saying "Not you, nor you, nor you ... ".

This is the flaw in the 'inclusivity' argument. Diversity, perhaps.

[teamsaint]

The people I work with are probably to a considerable extent the target market for the new audience. 25-40 years old, well educated, liberal, arty, well read . 6 Music listeners,mostly I should think.

Chances of any of them being converted to R3 by Clemmie, SK, or one of the others banging on about elitism,or inclusivity, or a bit of lightweight 70 year old pop music on Breakfast , or by them tuning in to Elizabeth Alker on a Saturday morning because they are intrigued by one of her tweets ? Exactly nil, I'd say.
They'll come to this stuff, if they do, their own way, the way we all do. Through investigation, chance, curiosity, personal recommendation .( I always try to share a musical recommendation if the moment is right , and I mean two way, and it works, for me and for others) .
And when they do, that's when R3 needs to be there and ready to do a great job.

[french frank]

Chances of any of them being converted to R3 by Clemmie, SK, or one of the others banging on about elitism,or inclusivity, or a bit of lightweight 70 year old pop music on Breakfast , or by them tuning in to Elizabeth Alker on a Saturday morning because they are intrigued by one of her tweets ? Exactly nil, I'd say.

If anything, hearing Clemmie going on about the elitists and snobs, and SK writing about how dreadfully upset we all were about the R1 Ibiza Prom , would make them 'tune out' straight away - without ever tuning in.

[oddoneout]

She reaches out to a broad and diverse audience - because the arts and music are for everyone, you know, not just the privileged.

Oh, you mean, like, describe what she does that's inclusive? Um … she insists on playing Gerry and the Pacemakers' version of Ferry 'Cross the Mersey. That's very inclusive. And actually quite exclusive too because it's not what many people want to hear on Radio 3. But I suppose they're the gatekeepers of high culture in their ivory towers, do you think?

A great many of whom seem to be trying to get as far away as possible from her reaching? It does seem to be difficult for these headgirl types to even hear criticism of their style and opinions, let alone stop to consider whether there might be something in such criticism.

[Darkbloom]

The people I work with are probably to a considerable extent the target market for the new audience. 25-40 years old, well educated, liberal, arty, well read . 6 Music listeners,mostly I should think.

Chances of any of them being converted to R3 by Clemmie, SK, or one of the others banging on about elitism,or inclusivity, or a bit of lightweight 70 year old pop music on Breakfast , or by them tuning in to Elizabeth Alker on a Saturday morning because they are intrigued by one of her tweets ? Exactly nil, I'd say.
They'll come to this stuff, if they do, their own way, the way we all do. Through investigation, chance, curiosity, personal recommendation .( I always try to share a musical recommendation if the moment is right , and I mean two way, and it works, for me and for others) .
And when they do, that's when R3 needs to be there and ready to do a great job.

I couldn't agree more. All this stuff about inclusivity just betrays a belief among the higher-ups that you need to talk down to the peasants or they won't know what you're going on about. In all these years i have been going to opera and concerts i have seen little that could be even vaguely classed as snobbery.

[aeolium]

In all these years i have been going to opera and concerts i have seen little that could be even vaguely classed as snobbery.

Really? Not the dress code at Glyndebourne? Not the high prices at Glyndebourne (£230 stalls, e.g.) and other country house opera houses, e.g. Garsington £150 stalls? Not the well-heeled corporate types at the Royal Opera House? In the words of John Carey, "No other single institution does as much as the Royal Opera House to perpetuate the association of high art in the public's mind with lavishness, grandeur and exclusiveness. The colossal injections of other people's money needed to maintain it are notorious. In 1996 alone it swallowed £78 million of lottery funding. It has been the principal beneficiary of public subsidy ever since the Arts Council's inception." And that lottery money injection, since lottery tickets are predominantly bought by the poorer classes, could arguably be regarded as a straightforward subsidy of the wealthy by the poor.

There are of course excellent regional opera companies, and touring companies, who do much to welcome a wide audience and make opera financially accessible to all classes, as well as serving an audience outside London - Opera North, Welsh National Opera, English Touring Opera, the Birmingham Opera Company, to name a few of the best known. But as long as opera continues to cultivate an image of being the musical playground of the privileged classes, it will put off many who should not be put off. The best thing R3 can do is to make it freely available and, as far as is possible, comprehensible with good introductions (and I think libretto translations on the website for those interested to follow the performance). I think it does this reasonably well at present.