The Envy of the World?

[Old Grumpy]

Browsing in the music section of a small, but well stocked secondhand bookshop (as you do) in York the other day, I came across "The Envy of the World: Fifty Years of the BBC Third Programme and Radio Three" by Humphrey Carpenter.

A bold statement indeed! Perhaps it was during the period concerned - the book was first published in 1996. I doubt he'd get away with that statement in regard to the next 22 years (unlike the NHS, of course, which is still the Envy of the world 70 years on ).

OG

[french frank]

Yes, the book was commissioned by Nicholas Kenyon to mark the 50th anniversary (HC then an R3 presenter). I know people have their views about NK as controller (think Brian Kay's Sunday Morning, Paul Gambaccini's Morning Collection and the dropping of certain presenters considered too stiff - NK did send people to the States to find out about classical music broadcasting there ) but there were some interesting big projects ("Fairest Isle", "Sounding the Century") and this was two years before the arrival of RW.

Browsing in the music section of a small, but well stocked secondhand bookshop (as you do) in York the other day, I came across "The Envy of the World: Fifty Years of the BBC Third Programme and Radio Three" by Humphrey Carpenter.

A bold statement indeed! Perhaps it was during the period concerned - the book was first published in 1996. I doubt he'd get away with that statement in regard to the next 22 years (unlike the NHS, of course, which is still the Envy of the world 70 years on ).

OG

[kernelbogey]

I read this a few years ago and found it fascinating and well written.

OG's post also revives fond memories of Humphrey's quirky weekend morning broadcasts.

[LMcD]

IIRC, HC was once asked whether he thought Radio 3 should dumb down. His reply was 'No, it should crazy up'.
One of the more frequently consulted works on my bookshelf is his biography of Benjamin Britten.

[french frank]

OG's post also revives fond memories of Humphrey's quirky weekend morning broadcasts.

HC quite a favourite of mine, but when I mentioned his name to a broadsheet journalist, his response was: "He irritates the pants off me." So there you have it on listener opinions of presenters.

We still have this quote from TEotW on the FoR3 homepage: "In these days of ‘managerialism' and relentless commercial competition – not to mention the BBC’s own controversial attempts to compete with its commercial rivals – Radio 3 will continue to be at risk."

And my favourite bit: "The BBC has never sat down to define 'culture', or what a 'cultural network' should be doing. Nor has it really ever faced up to the fact that if such a network is to do its job properly, it will, by definition, only have a very small audience."

YIPPEE!!! Essential Classics has 800,000 listeners!! Keep going chaps. As our Foreign Secretary might say: '**** culture."

[LMcD]

I think you underestimate our Foreign Secretary, Sir! Unlike his less talented colleagues, he's able to make a fool of himself in several languages, including Latin.

[oddoneout]

HC quite a favourite of mine, but when I mentioned his name to a broadsheet journalist, his response was: "He irritates the pants off me." So there you have it on listener opinions of presenters.

Good, it suggests that HC was/is doing something right...., but yes presenters do tend to divide opinion, unless I suppose they are so bland and inoffensive that no-one even notices they are there. Not sure I would consider that a good alternative.

YIPPEE!!! Essential Classics has 800,000 listeners!! Keep going chaps.

Happy to oblige ff and keep the station going, in the hopes that for the serious R3 afficionados some proper programmes might be put on, and that if there is ever a change of heart at the top there is still at least a slot open to put culture in.

[french frank]

Happy to oblige ff and keep the station going, in the hopes that for the serious R3 afficionados some proper programmes might be put on, and that if there is ever a change of heart at the top there is still at least a slot open to put culture in.

The point about that is that overall the audience is not increasing. So if new listeners are beng attracted to Breakfast, Essential Classics, and perhaps a couple of other programmes, it means that other listeners are turning off (like me).

If Essential Classics and Breakfast are getting good audiences, what, I wonder, is happening to the audience for other programmes - the evening concert, for example, lunchtime concert, perhaps even Hear and Now? Are these the listeners who are leaving and finding alternative listening, and if so, what will happen to this level of programme?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If Essential Classics and Breakfast are getting good audiences, what, I wonder, is happening to the audience for other programmes - the evening concert, for example, lunchtime concert, perhaps even Hear and Now? Are these the listeners who are leaving and finding alternative listening, and if so, what will happen to this level of programme?

My own attitude used to be similar to that of oddy's - I kept on faithfully listening to the morning schedules through increasingly gritted teeth in the hope that they might get better. Eventually, I came to realize that this was being as effective as going to a formerly-favourite restaurant which had gone rapidly downhill after a change of owner: no matter how hard I wished (harder and harder with every birthday - and not just because of the increasing number of candles on the cake) I was never going to get the standard I wanted back: the more recent customers wanted the new fare. So I started cooking for myself - with the result that I use R3 (the metaphor's exhausted itself) less and less - and hardly ever Live (CotW, and BaL are the only programmes these days that I listen to regularly as they're broadcast). Nowadays, the i-Player is what I listen to most.

I don't know what effect this will have on the future of the station - although I think I'm more "optimistic" about this than oddy, if I've correctly understood his comments to suggest that if we don't listen to the Morning schedules, the BBC management will close the station down completely (if that is a misunderstanding/misrepresentation, I apologise unreservedly to oddy) - I think having R3 at all brings a sort of kudos to the Beeb that even the management who don't listen to the station appreciate. But I suspect that as the style and attitude to presentation and repertoire continues to spread to other programmes, then R3 will decrease even more in usefulness and importance to me - and that a sequel to HC's book might have to be called/subtitled Why Don't You Just Turn Your Radio Off and Go Out and Do Something Less Mind-Numbing Instead?

[french frank]

if we don't listen to the Morning schedules, the BBC management will close the station down completely (if that is a misunderstanding/misrepresentation, I apologise unreservedly to oddy) - I think having R3 at all brings a sort of kudos to the Beeb that even the management who don't listen to the station appreciate.

The nub of it. What would happen to the Proms? The BBC is a broadcaster - where would they broadcast the Proms if there were no Radio 3? What would be the point of keeping the orchestras going if their concerts weren't broadcast?

The BBC knows damn well that its reputation as a 'public service broadcaster' is guaranteed by Radio 3 - and Radio 4 - rather than by Radio 1 and Radio 2 where demands are regularly made that they should be 'sold off' to commercial operators.

But what kind of Radio 3? A few fig leaves throughout the day …

[Old Grumpy]

I read this a few years ago and found it fascinating and well written.

OG's post also revives fond memories of Humphrey's quirky weekend morning broadcasts.

Excellent, I bought it and look forward to reading it.

OG

[french frank]

Humphrey's quirky weekend morning broadcasts.

I'm trying desperately to remember. I think it was a Humphrey 'introduction' to the Rachmaninov C#minor prelude which was based on some detective story. Was it that the piano was booby-trapped?

Ha! Wiki: It might have been Ngaio Marsh's Overture to Death. It was timed so that at a crucial moment something or other happened (a shot rang out?) and the music stopped abruptly. All orchestrated by Humph. RW didn't appreciate his humour, apparently …

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

A few fig leaves throughout the day …

At my age, quite a few bits of fhg leaves throughout the day, too ...

[LMcD]

I'm trying desperately to remember. I think it was a Humphrey 'introduction' to the Rachmaninov C#minor prelude which was based on some detective story. Was it that the piano was booby-trapped?

Ha! Wiki: It might have been Ngaio Marsh's Overture to Death. It was timed so that at a crucial moment something or other happened (a shot rang out?) and the music stopped abruptly. All orchestrated by Humph. RW didn't appreciate his humour, apparently …

Not forgetting the 'cymbal clash' scene in Hitchcock's 'The Man Who Knew Too Much' .....

[Richard Tarleton]

Two-page article in today's Sunday Times culture section by Alan Davey, talking about his musical journey, elitism and prejudice, the inverted snobbery of Alan Bennett's parents and his worried about not showing themselves up....and "people who love classical music behaving like dragons guarding the treasure they have accumulated over many years. Treasure that probably started with the generosity of someone else, generosity of showing and sharing at an impressionable time in their lives" - and then talking about trying new things.....and then goes on to talk about the Proms.....

I can't help thinking the RAH itself doesn't help matters, only music of a certain size or scale being even possible in it...(earlier in the article he talks about the experience of a live classical guitarist, or viol player ...)