Christoph Von Dohnanyi: Thoughts?

[Conchis]

I'd be interested in hearing opinions on this conductor.

I heard Dohnanyi a lot when I lived in London, as my time there coincided with his Philharmonia tenure. The impression I had then was that, while he was very strong in the post-Romantic repertoire (an excellent concert Woyzeck), he tended to dispatch anything Classical or Romantic with an impatience that suggested he couldn't wait to get it over with; or that he was anxious to 'de-prettify' the scores.

His conducting of Die Frau Ohne Schatten at Covent Garden impressed me a lot back in 2001 (the last outing of the Hockney designs).

Currently listening to his (incomplete?) Cleveland Bruckner cycle on Decca - I notice the same things I noticed in concert:there does seem to be a deliberate strategy to make the 'big moments' underwhelming, imo.

His close physical resemblance to Derek Jacobi always intrigued me, too.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I have his Vienna Flying Dutchman.

Superb!

[Richard Tarleton]

I remember Apollo's Fire director Jeanette Sorrell telling this uninspiring anecdote in an interview on R3 - it could have been EMS, or possibly In Tune.

Named for the classical god of music and the sun, Apollo's Fire was founded in 1992 by the award-winning conductor and harpsichordist Jeannette Sorrell. Sorrell, who was 26 at the time, had assistance from Roger Wright, who was then Artistic Administrator of the Cleveland Orchestra. Sorrell came to the attention of Wright through recommendations from conducting faculty at the Aspen Music Festival and Tanglewood Music Festival where she had studied under Leonard Bernstein, Roger Norrington and others. Wright was handling the Cleveland Orchestra's search for an assistant conductor, and he invited Sorrell to an interview for the position. The interview was conducted by Cleveland Orchestra Music Director Christoph von Dohnányi along with Roger Wright. During the interview, Dohnányi told Sorrell that there was "no point in finding time with the orchestra for her to audition, as the audience in Cleveland would never accept a woman as a conductor." Sorrell replied that she had not applied for this job, and her true goal was to work with a period-instrument orchestra. Following this encounter, Wright decided to help Sorrell launch a period-instrument orchestra.

- from Apollo's Fire Wiki entry. Maybe Roger should have done a bit more groundwork first....

Heard him conduct the Philharmonia in Cardiff (mostly Beethoven) but don't own any CDs. He is the son of one of Hitler's last martyrs and the nephew of Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer. According to Norman Lebrecht he was one of the German conductors, c.f. Sawallisch, whose careers were doomed to provincial obscurity by the ubiquity of and swamping of the market by Karajan (I paraphrase), and whose recording careers didn't really take off until HvK had gone into terminal decline.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Maybe Roger should have done a bit more groundwork first....

Actually, RW comes out rather well in this anecdote - why did Sorrell accept the invitation if she wasn't interested in working with the orchestra?!

According to Norman Lebrecht

Only Lebrecht could contrive attributing blame onto Karajan for the lack of profile of a conductor born 21 years later.

[Richard Tarleton]

Actually, RW comes out rather well in this anecdote - why did Sorrell accept the invitation if she wasn't interested in working with the orchestra?!

She didn't actually say that - rather that her true goal was to work with a baroque orchestra...this could have been a step along the way....all I meant was perhaps Rog might have known the women conductor situation in Cleveland, or might have sought Maestro vD's views on same....

Only Lebrecht could contrive attributing blame onto Karajan for the lack of profile of a conductor born 21 years later.

Dohnyani, quoted in Lebrecht, was highly critical of HvK's legacy. I just toss this into the mix, for perspective on CvD, having no axe to grind

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

She didn't actually say that - rather that her true goal was to work with a baroque orchestra...this could have been a step along the way....all I meant was perhaps Rog might have known the women conductor situation in Cleveland, or might have sought Maestro vD's views on same....

Dohnyani, quoted in Lebrecht, was highly critical of HvK's legacy. I just toss this into the mix, for perspective on CvD, having no axe to grind

[Richard Tarleton]

And given that https://In its hometown of Cleveland...s home series., it seems CvD may have been wrong about wimmin conductors in Cleveland anyway

[Richard Barrett]

According to Norman Lebrecht

Sentences that begin with these words tend not to hold my attention for some reason...

I don't know many of his recordings (and I must have seen him conduct but I don't remember) - Henze's Der junge Lord is something he seems to have got deeply involved with, Birtwistle's Earth Dances is perhaps not.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't know many of his recordings (and I must have seen him conduct but I don't remember) - Henze's Der junge Lord is something he seems to have got deeply involved with, Birtwistle's Earth Dances is perhaps not.

Well, HB trusted him with the premiere of The Shadow of Night (a Cleveland commission to mark CvD's departure as chief conductor) and CvD also conducted the UK premiere with the Philharmonia, so his depth of involvement must have been sufficient to keep HB onside.

But, yes - of my three recordings of Earth Dances, CvD's is the one I least frequently turn to; which rather sums up my feelings for him: he's a good, often very good conductor, but hasn't made any records (that I know of) that I'd put as amongst the very best: Wozzeck probably the best thing he's done - and I think he was the conductor of the only live performance of that work I've ever attended - early '80s, ROHCG, with Donald McIntyre. The only other time that I can remember seeing him was a rather interesting Ives Fourth with the Philharmonia a couple of years later - lighter than usually presented, as if taking the Scherzo's "comedy" subtitle at face value. I wanted to experience it again, but the recording he made (?in Cleveland?) didn't really float my boat.

A bit of a decent "also ran", I think.

[Richard Barrett]

Wozzeck probably the best thing he's done - and I think he was the conductor of the only live performance of that work I've ever attended - early '80s, ROHCG, with Donald McIntyre.

Oh yes, well that was certainly one occasion on which I've "seen" him conduct. I don't like to think of artists as "also-rans" though - surely there's something he's done which only he could have done (in that way)? There are hundreds of conductors in the world much less well-known and less highly thought of than him.

[jayne lee wilson]

Off-the-top-of....

An excellent, extensive, Cleveland/Webern orchestral anthology, and a Birtwistle Earth Dances which, when I listened to the work very regularly some years ago, was for me at least the equal of Boulez, and preferable to the Eotvos.... whilst I find it hard to compare across different recordings with a piece of such epic complexity, the sheer orchestral expertise of the Dohnanyi was for me unignorable....

Recalling through a haze of summer cognac-on-the-rocks... (and a stressful afternoon's online/phone business, driving me to drink) ...there's a wonderful VPO album of Brahms/Schoenberg Op.25 and the arr. Mahler version of LvB O.95....a Pet Sounds album for me; Op.25 is an iconic work of mine, and this is my favourite recording.
On an old Decca Double, I also admired his Schoenberg Op.16, Op.8 Songs and the Erwartung...
I even bought his VPO/Wozzeck on LP years ago... it reviewed well as I recall...

I may have others, but the garden and the brandy beckon on this strange football-less day....god, I haven't eaten anything yet...
Can you live on coffee and alcohol?

Anyway, I never heard much of his Bruckner, apart from the unfinished 9th which impressed me deeply (taped off-air) with its structural focus and clarity of line. Again well received in the G.
The sort of crisp, brisk approach which, revisited now, may be more in tune with my present tastes.

(top recommendations in bold...)
IIRC, R3 and other presenters/reviewers used to mention a Schumann 2nd he did, with the Philharmonia at the RFH, in legendary terms... I wonder if anyone here was at that one?

[Conchis]

Oh yes, well that was certainly one occasion on which I've "seen" him conduct. I don't like to think of artists as "also-rans" though - surely there's something he's done which only he could have done (in that way)? There are hundreds of conductors in the world much less well-known and less highly thought of than him.

I'd say this recording of Wozzeck is, on balance, the best I've heard.

But I find his reputation baffling, for the reasons cited in the initial post. He does not seem to be an all-rounder (fair enough) but if you are the PC of a major orchestra you need to have interesting things to say about the core repertoire. Maybe CvD does have interesting things to say - but, in my experience, it's not enjoyable to hear them. I'd far rather hear his much-despised predecessor Sinopoli conduct it than him.

There was a way around the Karajan problem if you were a German conductor in that period: get yourself an American agent and grab a few well-paid guest spots in the States. If you had it, Europe would listen soon enough. This strategy worked for Klaus Tennestedt!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't like to think of artists as "also-rans" though - surely there's something he's done which only he could have done (in that way)? There are hundreds of conductors in the world much less well-known and less highly thought of than him.

Well, yes - and I did say he was a "good, often very good" conductor. It's just that he's never my first choice for any of the repertoire he's recorded - even the Wozzeck is surpassed fro me by Kegel's. "Also ran" is better than stalling at the starting gate, or not being good enough to run in the first place - but we've got into trouble with horse racing metaphors once already this week, so I'll stop digging this hole!

(I can't stand Horse Racing anyway!)

[cloughie]

Well so good to see such half-hearted support for a great conductor, Jayne, apart, seems to rate him! Then Try his Dvorak 6 to 9 - really good, a fine Mendelssohn Symphonies set, Mahler 4 5 6 plus Webern Summerwind, Mozart last six coupled with Webern. That’s just for starters.

[gurnemanz]

Well, yes - and I did say he was a "good, often very good" conductor. It's just that he's never my first choice for any of the repertoire he's recorded - even the Wozzeck is surpassed fro me by Kegel's. "Also ran" is better than stalling at the starting gate, or not being good enough to run in the first place - but we've got into trouble with horse racing metaphors once already this week, so I'll stop digging this hole!

(I can't stand Horse Racing anyway!)

I second the Dohnányi Wozzeck and also can't resist mentioning that we were at the Kegel Wozzeck concert performance in Leipzig in 1973. A most memorable evening with Gisela Schröter riveting as Marie - arms waving she knocked over a mike stand at one point. (We also saw her as Kundry in Kegel's Parsifal).

The only time I can remember seeing Dohnányi live was with the Philharmonia Orchestra at Basingstoke Anvil a couple of years ago – Bruckner 9 and Eva-Maria Westbroek in Strauss’s Four Last Songs. An excellent concert. (I note that Westbroek is up for Kundry next year at the Deutsche Oper, Berlin with D. Runnicles.)

Another very fine Dohnányi recording is the Brahms and Schumann Concertos with Cleveland Orch and Joshua Bell.