Characterful wind players - English Chamber Orchestra -1970s

[Dave2002]

Having bought some Murray Perahia Mozart Piano Concertos CDs recently at our local dump, I referred to the backs to find out more. They are Sony issues recorded in analogue with the ECO. Some of the wind playing is really lovely - and in one of them - is it number 22? - the flute playing is truly beautiful.

Do we have any knowledge still of who the instrumentalists might have been on those CDs?

There are different ways of playing the flute, and perhaps that style of playing is less fashionable now. It’s not the only way to play, but it did make this listener prick his ears up, which rather few players do nowadays. I think also of a concert I attended in Sweden with the Gothenburg SO, and again the flute player on that occasion had a stand out gorgeous sound and way of playing which my friends also remarked upon. Perhaps we are less used to hearing players with real character these days - maybe too much effort to blend in??!!

[jayne lee wilson]

That sonically-recessed "anonymity" of symphony-orchestral winds was part of what HIPPs and period-instrument conductors and orchestras tried to address.

Try the SCO with Ticciati, the ORR with JEG, COE with Harnoncourt or YNS, to rediscover real colour and character. It's an especially profound and indulgent pleasure in the Ticciati Schumann cycle.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Do we have any knowledge still of who the instrumentalists might have been on those CDs?

I think that the flautist on those recordings was William Bennett; the others were probably the same wind soloists who recorded the Mozart Piano & Wind Quintet with Perahia: Neil Black (Oboe), Thea King (Clarinet), Graham Sheen (Bassoon) and Anthony Halstead (Horn). (Tony might be able to correct this, and add details of the "seconds" at the time.) The orchestra's leader at the time was Jose Luis Garcia, and other leaders of the Strings included Josef Frolich and Olga Hegedus. Some useful details and photos here:

http://www.englishchamberorchestra.co.uk/about/archive

And you are absolutely spot on about the beauty of Mozart's orchestration; there's never been a better orchestrator - with just a couple of dozen players, he conjures up so many different timbres. And the winds are different between the works - only the c minor uses everyone; for the others, some use a pair of oboes but no clarinets, others clarinets but no oboes. Always a pair of Horns, rarely Trumpets (and rarely Timps - and not always with Trumpets). There's usually only one flute at most - but that's always given some of the most ravishing counter-melodies in all Music. For all that Mozart disliked as a young man (at least) hearing a flute as a solo instrument (in a Concerto or Sonata), he knew exactly how to get the best out of it when used sparingly, as a member of the orchestra.

[Petrushka]

I think I could tell Jack Brymer apart from all other clarinetists, that wonderful, individual creamy tone heard to perfection in the LSO/Previn Rachmaninov 2nd Symphony. Also among the clarinet fraternity, Colin Bradbury of the BBC SO was instantly recognisable at least to me. The bassoon is, perhaps, a little more difficult to say who is playing but Brian Pollard of the Concertgebouw somehow seemed to manage it and he can be heard on many a Haitink recording.

Does anyone now who the oboist might be in the BPO/Cluytens Beethoven cycle? Is it too early to have been Lothar Koch? Listen to it and marvel at the incredibly gorgeous tone throughout.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Does anyone now who the oboist might be in the BPO/Cluytens Beethoven cycle? Is it too early to have been Lothar Koch? Listen to it and marvel at the incredibly gorgeous tone throughout.

Koch was appointed in 1957, the date of the earliest of the Cluytens recordings, so I'd say it is him. You're right: it's a very distinctive, creamy sound - a great favourite of mine.

[Dave2002]

That sonically-recessed "anonymity" of symphony-orchestral winds was part of what HIPPs and period-instrument conductors and orchestras tried to address.

Try the SCO with Ticciati, the ORR with JEG, COE with Harnoncourt or YNS, to rediscover real colour and character. It's an especially profound and indulgent pleasure in the Ticciati Schumann cycle.

I tend to prefer period instrument orchestras, but players with real character can work in regular orchestras.

i don't know why, but characterful playing does not seem to a feature in too many orchestras these days. Do many conductors try to stamp it out?

[mathias broucek]

The ECO winds are also excellent in Barenboim’s EMI set of the concertos and in the Te Kanawa / Tate Sons of the Auvergne

[Tony Halstead]

I tend to prefer period instrument orchestras, but players with real character can work in regular orchestras.

i don't know why, but characterful playing does not seem to a feature in too many orchestras these days. Do many conductors try to stamp it out?

One of the various historic directors of the English Concert although not actively 'stamping out' characterful playing, definitely discouraged it! Ask Alfredo Bernardini!

[BBMmk2]

Wasn’t there a flautist called Richard Adeney? Or was it William Bennett in the 1970s winds of the ECO?

[Once Was 4]

Koch was appointed in 1957, the date of the earliest of the Cluytens recordings, so I'd say it is him. You're right: it's a very distinctive, creamy sound - a great favourite of mine.

Or possibly Karl Steins. See: http://www.myclassicalnotes.com/2017...u-celibidache/

Prof Steins (who died in 2009) was Lothar Koch's mentor but was eventually overshadowed by him. Like several other BPO players of that era, Steins was protected from military duty during WW2 by his membership of the BPO. Not that this saved all of them from becoming war casualties; one of Prof Steins' oboe colleagues was murdered (along with the BPO harpist) in the lawless jungle that Berlin became at the end of the war.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Wasn’t there a flautist called Richard Adeney? Or was it William Bennett in the 1970s winds of the ECO?

There was, indeed, Bbm - Bennett succeeded Adeney "in the 1970s" (according to Wikivague) so Adeney was probably the flute player on the Barenboim set, and Bennett on the Perahia.

[Tony Halstead]

There was, indeed, Bbm - Bennett succeeded Adeney "in the 1970s" (according to Wikivague) so Adeney was probably the flute player on the Barenboim set, and Bennett on the Perahia.

As usual, Wiki hasn't got it 'quite right'.
There was a period of at least a decade (maybe early 1970s to some time in the 1980s) when the ECO was blessed with the superb playing of both William Bennett and Richard Adeney, not playing together, but as alternating co-principal flute players.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

As usual, Wiki hasn't got it 'quite right'.
There was a period of at least a decade (maybe early 1970s to some time in the 1980s) when the ECO was blessed with the superb playing of both William Bennett and Richard Adeney, not playing together, but as alternating co-principal flute players.

[Mal]

Having bought some Murray Perahia Mozart Piano Concertos CDs recently at our local dump, I referred to the backs to find out more. They are Sony issues recorded in analogue with the ECO. Some of the wind playing is really lovely - and in one of them - is it number 22? - the flute playing is truly beautiful.

Do we have any knowledge still of who the instrumentalists might have been on those CDs?

I have the original box set which comes with an 87 page booklet but they still don't find space to specify the players! The producers get mentioned (twice), the reissue engineer is mentioned, even the photographer gets a mention. But (apart from Murray) none of the players are named, and they are not photographed. Come on Sony, the actual players deserve a mention.

[Dave2002]

As usual, Wiki hasn't got it 'quite right'.
There was a period of at least a decade (maybe early 1970s to some time in the 1980s) when the ECO was blessed with the superb playing of both William Bennett and Richard Adeney, not playing together, but as alternating co-principal flute players.

I did wonder if the player was Richard Adeney - but as noted by Mal, the CD distributors didn't think to list the performers. I may also have that box set, but at 25p per CD at the dump they just cried out to be rescued for use in the cars.