Scaled-down transcriptions

[LMcD]

At 10.25 this morning Sarah Walker offered us the first movement of Debussy's 'La Mer' played by what I took to be piano trio. I must admit that, for me, it singularly failed to evoke the power and majesty of the sea and, overall, struck me as a rather pointless exercise. Yet other scaled-down transcriptions can add to our appreciation and understanding of the original piece. I particularly enjoy Schoenberg's 'take' on Strauss waltzes. Are some pieces perhaps best left 'untranscribed'?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I heard Sally Beamish's Piano Trio reduction of La Mer at a Trio Apaches concert a couple of years ago, and was similarly unimpressed, LMcD. But I think that this is the fault of the arranger, rather than the idea of an arrangement for Piano Trio as such: the composer's own reduction for two pianos is remarkably successful in transforming his own astonishing orchestration into pianistic writing.

[Nick Armstrong]

I particularly enjoy Schoenberg's 'take' on Strauss waltzes.

I absolutely love those - plus those by Berg ("Wine, Women & Song") and Webern. I think I prefer them to the originals...

[cloughie]

I absolutely love those - plus those by Berg ("Wine, Women & Song") and Webern. I think I prefer them to the originals...

Yes, they have less treacle!

[Bryn]

Anyone here familiar with this set?



Not as slimmed down as piano trio version of the 2nd Symphony but . . .

[BBMmk2]

With brass bands, it's a similar thing. brass bands usually consist of 28 brass instruments, plus three percussionists. When it comes to orchesdtral arrangements, if it's a good one, I sometimes prefer the brass band version!

[vinteuil]

Anyone here familiar with this set?



Not as slimmed down as piano trio version of the 2nd Symphony but . . .

... thanks for this, Bryn - it looks really innarestin' -

http://amzn.eu/3Twgs0J

.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I've conducted scaled-down versions of various operettas and musicals, the only benefit being that the orchestra is thereby cheaper.

Similarly, the Scarborough Spa Orchestra was reduced to one-per-part a few years after Max Jaffa's retirement, and the effect was (and remains) detrimental. Again, the reason was economic, but to balance the books, you may unbalance the orchestra.

But the OP specifies transcriptions - an entirely different matter, piano trios being a particular favourite genre of mine.

[cloughie]

With brass bands, it's a similar thing. brass bands usually consist of 28 brass instruments, plus three percussionists. When it comes to orchesdtral arrangements, if it's a good one, I sometimes prefer the brass band version!

The Elgar Howarth arrangement of Pictures at an Exhibition is a good example - mind you is it scaled up Mussorgky or scaled down Ravel.
Overall Bbm I agree with you, but there is also the question of tastefulness. A really good arrangement is wonderful but at the other end is a dull dumbed-down version which has been done to make it easy to play.

[cloughie]

... thanks for this, Bryn - it looks really innarestin' -

http://amzn.eu/3Twgs0J

.

I see this is available from an amazon merchant in Switzerland at £14.94 plus £1.26 pp - anyone know if this would be clobbered with a post office customs surcharge?

[Bryn]

I see this is available from an amazon merchant in Switzerland at £14.94 plus £1.26 pp - anyone know if this would be clobbered with a post office customs surcharge?

In general, for goods sent from countries outside the EU, if the value of such goods is under £15, no duty is payable. However, in the case of Switzerland, I think there is a reciprocal arrangement with the EU, as with other EFTA members. I have never been charged duty or additional VAT when ordering from Swiss vendors.

[cloughie]

In general, for goods sent from countries outside the EU, if the value od such goods is under £15, no duty is payable. However, in the case of Switzerland, I think there is a reciprocal arandgement with the EU, as with other EFTA , members. I have never been charged duty or additional VAT when ordering from Swiss vendors.

Thanks, Bryn. I’ve tested the Beethoven on Spotify - sounds good and interestingly different!

[Serial_Apologist]

There are of course the Liszt piano transcriptions of famous and less famous classics, which are often not only better than the originals, impressing just by virtue of what the piano/pianist can achieve with no loss from the originals, but show Liszt the arranger as often the greater source of his inspiration than using his own materials. And the same almost goes for Stravinsky's transcriptions of three movements from Petruschka, some of the most thrilling piano writing ever put on paper. I for one like also the latter's two-piano transcription of The Rite, disagreeing with Ansermet's original alleged shock on hearing the composer's pre-debut go-through on the piano, namely to the effect that the piano lacked the necessary orchestral colourations vital to its success. Stravinsky went on to profit from applying pianistic resources to the layered harmonic complexities of his "Russian" period work in Les Noces, and others further profited from that particular example, including Bartok in his Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion, which, ironically, sounds better in the original than in the composer's later orchestrated counter-reduction!

[ahinton]

I particularly enjoy Schoenberg's 'take' on Strauss waltzes.

I enjoiy them too but much prefer the four even more "scaled down" ones for piano solo by Godowsky (one being for left hand alone, though this strikes me as the least effective of them).

[BBMmk2]

Hi Clougie, yes I quite agree re the Mussorgsky/Howarth Pictures. That is a really good example of how to reinterpret a work to another medium. Taste ofcourse is essential, and this example gives off plenty.