School Music - Fighting the cuts

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Let's not blame Sir Simon. He's actually one of the good guys.

There's a massive campaign on to save the East Sussex Music Service.

[MrGongGong]

Let's not blame Sir Simon. He's actually one of the good guys.

There's a massive campaign on to save the East Sussex Music Service.

I'm sure he is
BUT he doesn't seem to have done much after so many folks thought he was going to save music education.

[Bergonzi]

Who the hell is Simon? (Simple Simon?) Abbreviations and single names don't help the uneducated, like me.

[Bergonzi]

I think there has to be some discipline when learning an instrument but it has to come from the student and not forced on them. Because the student wants to become a better musician he/she will work at it and try and absorb all they can. I've long suspected the methods and value of El Sistema and also Suzuki. There are always instances of people doing well under any system but these are the exception rather than the rule. If a system or teacher can inspire pupils then that often is the answer.

Dudamel is and was a flash in the pan and musically I've found him boring, but that's only my opinion.

[oddoneout]

Who the hell is Simon? (Simple Simon?) Abbreviations and single names don't help the uneducated, like me.

Simon Rattle

[oddoneout]

I think there has to be some discipline when learning an instrument but it has to come from the student and not forced on them. Because the student wants to become a better musician he/she will work at it and try and absorb all they can. I've long suspected the methods and value of El Sistema and also Suzuki. There are always instances of people doing well under any system but these are the exception rather than the rule. If a system or teacher can inspire pupils then that often is the answer.

Dudamel is and was a flash in the pan and musically I've found him boring, but that's only my opinion.

If youngsters don't even have the chance to take the first step, viz. opportunity to try out an instrument, then debate around methods of tuition becomes somewhat irrelevant. If using a 'flavour of the month' scheme such as El Sistema enables that first contact then perhaps the shortcomings become less important when weighed against no contact at all?

[Bryn]

Anyone catch George* on the Today programme this morning. His contribution on the subject of this thread might even get me to listen to his new opera, something I would normally give a miss. I dread the possibility of Thomas** jumping on the bandwagon. I don't think I could bear another Tempest experience.

* Benjamin
** Adès

[DracoM]

Sidetrack but oh golly gosh, I do SO agree about the Adès Tempest.
Crikey. How dare anyone do that to The Tempest!

[BBMmk2]

Good for Black Dyke Band!!

[ardcarp]

I think there has to be some discipline when learning an instrument but it has to come from the student and not forced on them. Because the student wants to become a better musician he/she will work at it and try and absorb all they can.

Mrs A. and I have observed flowering musical talents over the years and have drawn some (maybe incorrect?) conclusions. It seems a child needs:

1. To be born with an innate musicality, such that he/she has to express itself musically somehow
2. To have opportunity (which usually though not always means being reared in a musical family)
3. To have determination and stickability where instrumental practice is concerned
4. To have an inspired (and preferably gifted) teacher
5. To have a pushy parent.

The last one is a bit cynical, but often true!

[french frank]

If youngsters don't even have the chance to take the first step, viz. opportunity to try out an instrument, then debate around methods of tuition becomes somewhat irrelevant. If using a 'flavour of the month' scheme such as El Sistema enables that first contact then perhaps the shortcomings become less important when weighed against no contact at all?

Exactly - the majority don't have a chance to pick and choose a good teacher. The main thing is sticking an opportunity right in front of them and making it seem attractive to the youngsters themselves.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Exactly - the majority don't have a chance to pick and choose a good teacher. The main thing is sticking an opportunity right in front of them and making it seem attractive to the youngsters themselves.

... which is true of Education in general, isn't it? The specific point of the article in the OP is that the kids at this Primary school have all the requisites for an excellent Music education that have been mentioned. This is in danger, because at the moment its future depends entirely on the teacher(s) being willing to continue giving their services without being paid.

The point isn't the training of future Musicians, it's the Music education of "ordinary" kids (those who become butchers, refuse collectors, call centre workers, Members of Parliament) - and how this(and all creative arts education) is seen as a "voluntary" hobby that "doesn't really matter", rather than an essential aspect towards the development of fulfilled members of adult society.

There is a perfectly good Music education "system" at work in this school - one, indeed, that might well be ruined by the LEA adopting and imposing some "official" Music Education System. How this is valued and funded is what's at stake here.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

5. To have a pushy parent.
The last one is a bit cynical, but often true!

To make it less "cynical", just replace "pushy" with "encouraging". In many activities, there is often a point where the learner has to make an especial effort to pass a boundary where what was once easy and enjoyable becomes suddenly difficult and a chore. With voluntary activities (such as learning an instrument) it's easier to tell everyone that you want to give up - the gentle encouragement of adults at this point is essential to restore the kids' enthusiasm and recharge the batteries of their determination.

[DracoM]

[Bergonzi]

A young person does not in fact need a pushy or even an encouraging parent. If the child is determined enough and has fallen in love with music and a particular instrument then they will strive for success. I have friends who came from non musical backgrounds as I myself have (and including my wife), and we have all made a living as professional musicians.

Others I know came from musical parents and never wanted to be musicians.