School Music - Fighting the cuts

[MrGongGong]

I think one of the fundamental things that seems to be missing from discourse about education (not just confined to music) is examining what it is for in the first place?
Increasingly I find that people are unwilling to discuss this when planning and setting up projects.
The NPME (National Plan for Music Education in England) didn't help at all and simply repeated a load of tired nonsense about music being a "universal language" and so on.
When I go to work in schools I always try to think about what kinds of things aren't there and what the "unique opportunity" is in any given situation.
Music education has suffered (IMV) from genre-based approaches that fail to ask questions about the contextual basis for music as a phenomenon.

Surely school (and college/university) is a place to find about about things that you wouldn't encounter elsewhere?

[Keraulophone]

...it did seem to be working in an interesting way...

Thanks, MrGG.

I am interested in the set-ups at other 'Places Where They Sing', both religious and educational establishments. These seem to be working to their mutual benefit at Lincoln, which is excellent. One of their Lay Vicars was a choral scholar in Truro, so perhaps I could glean some more from him.

The reason for the selective quote is to point up the different goals of the many institutions and individuals involved throughout the country and abroad. It's all of interest, but where there's one DoM/cathedral Dean/school Head intent on achieving world-class singing at all costs (literally - St Thomas, Fifth Ave, NYC, where I was recently, comes to mind - instead of warm sherry, the congregation is offered chilled Champagne after Sunday Mass!), there are others whose greater prorities include community inclusivity, and the involvement of as many young people as can be reached, in the service of the church, and for genuinely educational reasons. Much of the so-called outreach extended from centres of excellence is no more than box-ticking to placate funding bodies, and is not carried out in the community on an ongoing basis. Many professional (non-volunteer) music leaders are unable to spare enough time even if funding increased, as it is rarely able to employ additional staff to achieve stated aims. I may be right in thinking that a huge amount of good work has been achieved at Leeds (Catholic) Cathedral. Another issue concerns key stages: why supplement an existing choir of boys and men with a girls' top line of 13-18 but not 8-13 year-olds? To what extent is it legitimate to discriminate against the younger group? (I won't bother to rehearse the arguments right now.)

One thing on the Lincoln website that caught my eye was that "Lincoln Cathedral has been shortlisted as a finalist in the ‘Visitor Attraction of the Year’ category at the 2019 Lincolnshire Tourism Excellence Awards." Is it not reasonable to assume that the well-nigh incomparable edifice that is Lincoln Minster is bound to attract many visitors? It has been doing so for over 900 years.

[Keraulophone]

I think one of the fundamental things that seems to be missing from discourse about education (not just confined to music) is examining what it is for in the first place?

Surely school (and college/university) is a place to find about about things that you wouldn't encounter elsewhere?

You've hit the nail on the head.

One of the great things about discovering music in school, in particular, at an early age is that an individual has the possibility of experiencing life-long development of musical skills, appreciation and knowledge both inside (if appropriate) and outside their professional life.

A German couple visiting the cathedral recently, who had just heard my daughter sing Jauchzet Gott in allen Landen BWV 51, but is considering reading Theology at university, implored her after the lunchtime concert to go to Germany to study music "for free". I will never forget their enthusiasm in exclaiming to the 16yo "But Music Is Ze Best!"

[Keraulophone]

I feel that often there are attractions for teachers in working in the private sector. Sometimes they get subsidised accommodation, and sometimes they do earn more than teachers in state schools.

I was writing from my experience in a particular independent school, which had been Direct Grant-aided until the 1970s, when it went fully independent and several key staff, who opposed the move, left to work in local state schools.

During my PGCE year, I did my one term's teaching practice in an Oxfordshire comprehensive school of 2500, and have since taught in two state and three private schools. The State versus Private debate can be had, but given that we're not in Finland, what's the point? There are good schools, schools of average quality, and there are mediocre schools. It is the head/principal who has the greatest influence in determining where their school comes along this continuum. However, poorly remunerated and well paid teachers are to be found in both sectors, as are motivated and unmotivated teachers and students. There must be a normal curve of talent in any school, consisting of some gifted teachers who are brilliant motivators and educators, the bulk of satisfactory teachers who do a reasonable job, and a few who should never have entered the profession but rather drifted into it and have remained to the detriment, over the years, of thousands of children.

I ended up in a school where I felt I could best achieve my own personal educational goals, employ creativity and imagination unencumbered by the weight of vacillating centralised dictat and thereby, I hope, made a difference to childrens' lives at the time and into their futures. I can tell which ones had a good experience because they tap me on the shoulder when I'm at the bar of the Ale House and buy me a pint!

[cloughie]

I was writing from my experience in a particular independent school, which had been Direct Grant-aided until the 1970s, when it went fully independent and several key staff, who opposed the move, left to work in local state schools.

During my PGCE year, I did my one term's teaching practice in an Oxfordshire comprehensive school of 2500, and have since taught in two state and three private schools. The State versus Private debate can be had, but given that we're not in Finland, what's the point? There are good schools, schools of average quality, and there are mediocre schools. It is the head/principal who has the greatest influence in determining where their school comes along this continuum. However, poorly remunerated and well paid teachers are to be found in both sectors, as are motivated and unmotivated teachers and students. There must be a normal curve of talent in any school, consisting of some gifted teachers who are brilliant motivators and educators, the bulk of satisfactory teachers who do a reasonable job, and a few who should never have entered the profession but rather drifted into it and have remained to the detriment, over the years, of thousands of children.

I ended up in a school where I felt I could best achieve my own personal educational goals, employ creativity and imagination unencumbered by the weight of vacillating centralised dictat and thereby, I hope, made a difference to childrens' lives at the time and into their futures. I can tell which ones had a good experience because they tap me on the shoulder when I'm at the bar of the Ale House and buy me a pint!

...and you can’t beat a good pint of Betty’s! Your posting about Truro School is very timely - I was there yesterday for a rehearsal for our choir which is taking part in the MVC Festival final concert at the Cathedral in May. Good piano and very good music facilities in the school. I have a mixture of optimism and pessimism about the future of music in Cornwall - a lot going on and Brass Bands are doing a lot to encourage young people to learn instruments, but funding from education resources generally is not good and I do fear that there is little emphasis on Classical music and too much on Pop. MVCs are ageing and a few have too small numbers to be viable. It was very encouraging at last year’s Camborne Festival, that the Adjudicator commented that the number of entries overall was higher in Cornwall than most others she had been involved with in the UK, where some classes attaracted no entrants and she was particularly impressed with the standard of entries from youn entrants. So somebody is doing somethig right down here, maybe against the odds!

[MrGongGong]

. but funding from education resources generally is not good and I do fear that there is little emphasis on Classical music and too much on Pop.

Music education has suffered (IMV) from genre-based approaches that fail to ask questions about the contextual basis for music as a phenomenon.

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[DracoM]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_four_extra

Immensely worth listening to.

[oddoneout]

The Choir: Our school by the Tower, shown on BBC2 last night, will doubtless have its critics and detractors, but that shouldn't take away the message that music is always important and relevant, but even more so arguably in difficult situations - in this case Grenfell and the enforced move of their school community.
In addition the mature, articulate (and occasionally very direct) views expressed by some of the pupils gives one hope for the future - and highlights the appalling inadequacies of the 'adults' supposedly running this country.

[Keraulophone]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/li...dio_four_extra

Immensely worth listening to.

That buffoonery added nothing to the debate, unless one hadn't yet clocked the widely discussed -8% school spending since 2010, but inevitably ridiculed private education (an aromatherapy spa at St Margaret's) for comic effect. Don't get me wrong, I usually enjoy the show, but no one is laughing at the current state of our education system.

[DracoM]

Sorry - promise not to offer any more to this thread if it's such embarrassing buffoonery.

[Richard Barrett]

I do fear that there is little emphasis on Classical music and too much on Pop.

It doesn't really matter! I had no awareness at all of "classical" music until I was at least 11 years old. I'm sure that can be said for many other contributors here. Thinking in terms of some kind of artificial balancing between musical genres in education is surely wrong, as MrGG says. Thinking in genres is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Why should "classical" music be given undue attention? If it is, does that guarantee in any way that children will give it a continuing place in their lives as they grow up?

[Keraulophone]

Draco, I think you overstated your case by claiming that that episode of The Now Show was 'immensely worth listening to' in the context of the thread; that's all.

No need to stand in the corner.

[vinteuil]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/li...dio_four_extra

Immensely worth listening to.

Draco - I think your link is to the 'live' broadcasting of Radio 4 Extra - so if you were listening on Monday evening at 9:30 then it was to a TED talk on Creativity with Ken Robinson : but if Keraulaphone pressed the link button at 9:40 this morning he would have heard Beachcomber By The Way.

Is this the source of a misunderstanding?

EDIT : from #117 I see he must have been listening at 9 this morning if he caught The Now Show...





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[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Draco - I think your link is to the 'live' broadcasting of Radio 4 Extra - so if you were listening on Monday evening at 9:30 then it was to a TED talk on Creativity with Ken Robinson : but if Keraulaphone pressed the link button at 9:40 this morning he would have heard Beachcomber By The Way.
Is this the source of a misunderstanding?
EDIT : from #117 I see he must have been listening at 9 this morning if he caught The Now Show..

Yes - when I clicked on the link just now I got the end of a (rather lame) Morecambe & Wise sketch, and the beginning of an adaptation of Forster's A Room With a View!

[cloughie]

It doesn't really matter! I had no awareness at all of "classical" music until I was at least 11 years old. I'm sure that can be said for many other contributors here. Thinking in terms of some kind of artificial balancing between musical genres in education is surely wrong, as MrGG says. Thinking in genres is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Why should "classical" music be given undue attention? If it is, does that guarantee in any way that children will give it a continuing place in their lives as they grow up?

So what happened to you and how did you come to Classical music. What I'm getting at is that there is a massive bombardment of pop music, I'm not saying that's wrong but surely there is room for some Classical music across the board - not artificial balancing. natural balancing. Do you want to perpetuate the notion that classical music is elitist? Surely it is about sharing music!