Justly-neglected?

[gurnemanz]

Coincidentally, there is a Spohr song on the the same album as the Verhulst I mentioned above. It's on YouTube with some interesting background detail.

Graham Johnson includes Spohr's novel take on Erlkönig in the "Songs by Schubert's Friends and Contemporaries" supplement to the Hyperion Complete Schubert Songs. A tricky violin obbligato part portrays the ghostly Erlkönig.

[EdgeleyRob]

So many of your list being Dutch, Bella, I would love to hear from Roehre, late of this parish, who would have reported on them all, not to mention the odd Dane and German too.

I enjoy Reinecke's piano concertos (Hellwig/Nordwestdeutsche Phil/Francis on CPO).

IIRC most if not all of those names have appeared in Roehre's listening to now lists.

[vinteuil]

Gade is definitely worth investigating. Let's just say that I've heard him derided as quoting Mendelssohn, even though the piece in question predated the Mendelssohn work he was "quoting".

... coincidentally I'm re-reading Storm's 'der Stechlin' (see 'What are you reading now?') - in which there is a character haunted by Gade - a reviewer notes : "Niels Wrschowitz dislikes his given name intensely, partly because it is Northern Germanic and does not fit with his Czech surname, but more importantly because his father named him after the 19th century Danish composer Niels Gade, whom he, as a very pronounced Wagnerian, has come to detest. Wrschowitz thus went to the effort of earning a doctorate in music so that he could print "Dr. Wrschowitz" on his calling-cards without the embarrassing first name."

.

[Lat-Literal]

On a recent visit to the Concertgebouw I noted several of the names inscribed on the walls that I had never heard of - or, if I knew them, it was only incredibly vaguely. And yet these fellows were once considered important enough to earn a place alongside Wagner, Mozart and Bach. Are they justly neglected or are we missing something? Can anyone persuade me to add Zweers and Diepenbrock et al to my list of best-beloved?

Bernard Zweers
Alphons Diepenbrock
Cornelis Dopper
Julius Röntgen
Carl Reinecke
Cornelis Schuyt
Jacob Obrecht
Jacobus Clemens non Papa
Johan Wagenaar
Willem Pijper
Johannes Verhulst
Niels Gade

I'm reasonably aware of most of these though not Jacobus Clemens non Papa and Johannes Verhulst. I agree with Petrushka on the merits of Diepenbrock, especially the Marsyas Concert Suite which I have with other compositions by him on Chandos - "Diepenbrock - Vol 1 : Orchestral Works". His Lydische Nacht is on another disc I have - Olympia's "400 Years of Dutch Music - Vol 8". I bought that one mainly for Hendrik Andriessen's excellent Ricercare. It also features Andriessen's fourth symphony and work by Badings and Van Gilse.

When it comes to Benelux generally:

I think Hendrik Andriessen and Van Gilse are both fairly underrated. Ditto Jongen who tends to be overlooked in favour of Franck. I don't mind Wagenaar. Pjiper and Dopper are ok. The Dutch Leo Smit - not the American one - was a genius who because of the Nazis died tragically young. I have some of his work on Channel Classics' - "Modern Times : Dutch Jewish Composers" which also features music by Ignace Lilien and Rosy Wertheim. And I have a mild interest in the avant garde music of Louis Andriessen and the violin music of Vieuxtemps.

Elsewhere, Gade is quite good for his period - I followed up on him when he was mentioned in a post by French Frank who might well have more of meaning to say on him than I have.

[french frank]

Elsewhere, Gade is quite good for his period - I followed up on him when he was mentioned in a post by French Frank who might well have more of meaning to say on him than I have.

Blimey. I don't remember posting anything, though I do have something by him somewhere …………………… Yes, Symphonies 3 & 5 were okayish, though not my usual taste. I was quite into northernish symphonists …

Anyway, while looking for that, I spotted two CDs of Ján Levoslav Bella, string quartets and the D minor string quintet. Recently unjustly neglected by me as I do rather like them.

[Lat-Literal]

Blimey. I don't remember posting anything, though I do have something by him somewhere …………………… Yes, Symphonies 3 & 5 were okayish, though not my usual taste. I was quite into northernish symphonists …

Anyway, while looking for that, I spotted two CDs of Ján Levoslav Bella, string quartets and the D minor string quintet. Recently unjustly neglected by me as I do rather like them.

It was in a post on symphonies in which you also, I think, mentioned Vanhal and Vorisek.

(The names stood out because at that time I was trying every night to reel off 500 composers' names from memory and I was having to learn new ones to get the number up)

[french frank]

It was in a post on symphonies in which you also, I think, mentioned Vanhal and Vorisek.

Yes, both are among my collection. I used to pick up secondhand copies of CDs which I imagine had been bought by people who played them once and decided not to keep them

[Rolmill]

I’m rather surprised that those Concertgebouw names don’t include Johann Wilhelm Wilms (1772 -1847).
A few years ago I spent a very enjoyable few days in Hilversum conducting a 2-CD recording of 4 of his well-crafted symphonies (Op. 14, 23, 52 and 58), plus a set of variations on a traditional Dutch tune, comprising a Concertante for flute, clarinet, bassoon, violin, ‘cello and orchestra. The superb, versatile Netherlands Radio Chamber Orchestra (now sadly defunct as a result of the Dutch government’s devastating cuts to its arts budget) played this lovable music as if their lives depended on it, many of the players commenting that they couldn’t understand why Wilms’ music was so neglected. To summarise his musical style, I’d say that Schubert is a big influence, followed by Haydn in the Finales; there are some glimpses of Schumann and Beethoven in the slow movements.
I’m very glad that I had a lucky opportunity to get to know this composer in a hands-on way.

Oh yes, good point. I conducted his first symphony (Op.9) a couple of years ago - as you say, well-crafted but also IMO with some interesting quirks which made it distinctive and well worth performing. Lots of positive comments afterwards from the orchestra as well as from the audience (for the choice of music more than for the performance!). I must look out for your recordings.

The point has often been made on these boards that it is a pity the modern reputations of Beethoven, Schubert, Mozart et al result in neglect of their less brilliant but nevertheless talented contemporaries. Over the past forty years recordings have done a little to raise awareness of the many delights of these composers, but concert performances remain all too rare.

[Lat-Literal]

Yes, both are among my collection. I used to pick up secondhand copies of CDs which I imagine had been bought by people who played them once and decided not to keep them

Excellent!

I have a lot of these cues if I speak the list. For example, I'd think Jayne.....Martinu.....that triggers Frank Martin. I remember when Graf and Graun came to me at the same time from a written source. I recall when I made a conscious effort to add composers of certain letters - V for Valls when Vorisek wouldn't quite stick. Gade was easy. These things come and go. Silly ones get missed. I kept forgetting Holst. I'd be lucky to get 400 now. Mostly this is all backed up with music - often patchy but not always. I know my likes, the groupings and the eras, and those are now supported by discs. So, yes, I have got my maps and there is less buying now. It is frustrating that I can't in the same way quite get a satisfying map of jazz.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Gade is what I call an exam piece composer, being largely unknown outside the world of ABRSM piano exams.

[verismissimo]

It's easy to assume that neglected composers are neglected for a reason. But among their number, lost but resurrected in the second half of the 20th century, are: 'early music' composers too numerous to mention; Monteverdi and Cavalli; Handel's operas (previously deemed unperformable); Donizetti and Bellini; Bruckner, Elgar, Janacek and ... Mahler.

My tip for resurrection in the coming years: Porpora and others of the Neapolitan bel canto school of the 18th century.

[BBMmk2]

Gade is what I call an exam piece composer, being largely unknown outside the world of ABRSM piano exams.

In other words, boring!

[cloughie]

In other words, boring!

...but with niggly technical hurdles!

[french frank]

In other words, boring!

It may have been boring the way the ABRSM students played it . There's a snatch (before someone had their smartphone confiscated, I'd guess) on Youtube of Gergiev's Hamlet with the LSO which is hardly 'boring'. And this quite late string quartet is nice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wa1sWhZd0g

[Cockney Sparrow]

Diepenbrock is definitely worth hearing and Wagenaar and Pjiper don't deserve neglect either. Some of their music is included in the mammoth RCO 125 boxed set while Diepenbrock can be found here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Diepenbrock...ds=diepenbrock............

I recall being much taken with "Hymnen an die Nacht for voice & orchestra" (or possibly "Die Nacht") on the Chandos vol II of Diepenbrock - and those performances by Hans Vonk are part of the Brilliant box. I had meant to look the disc out again, and will certainly do so now.