Justly-neglected?

[jean]

...Clemens non Papa and Obrecht. The last two are unjustly negelected for their fine work.

Only in so far as Renaissance polyphony is generally not given the attention that music between 1700 and 1950 is.

But it's true that even within an 'early music' context, you don't hear as much of Obrecht as you do of Ockeghem, and both of those were probably even soon after their own time eclipsed by Josquin.

What's often called the Franco-Flemish school dominated in continental Europe during the early Renaissance (why?) though I can't think of many French composers who belonged to it (why not?*). After Dunstable, the English carried on their own extraordinary wonderful florid style exemplified by the Eton Choirbiook, and took little notice of anyone else (and no-one else took much notice of them).

Clemens is a fine composer whose music does feature in programmes of Renaissance music these days though possibly not in propotion to his total output, because by his time the Italians were learning how to do it for themselves, and even the English were beginning to pay attention.

*Probably something to do with borders then not being where they are now.

[greenilex]

When in doubt, answer “economic conditions”...prosperity breeding spare cash for the arts.

[Richard Barrett]

But it's true that even within an 'early music' context, you don't hear as much of Obrecht as you do of Ockeghem, and both of those were probably even soon after their own time eclipsed by Josquin.

That's true, although I believe that Obrecht was rated at the same level as Josquin during their lifetimes. I think the reason for the Flanders region producing so many composers in this period was a combination of the cultural patronage of the Burgundian dukes and the cluster of important cathedrals in the area (extending into what are now France, Luxembourg and the Netherlands as well as Belgium), with their choir schools, with these being the product of Bruges' position at the time as Europe's most important centre of commerce. (edit: as greenilex just said!)

[gurnemanz]

I hadn't heard of Johann Joseph Herrmann Verhulst until I recently obtained CPO's 3 disc "Collection of Compositions from Old and New Times" (an on spec purchase from jpc who were selling it for only 7.99 Euro). The young Robert Schumann included musical supplements (a bit like cover discs today, I suppose) with his quarterly Neue Zeitschrift für Musik. Verhulst was studying in Leipzig (with Mendelssohn) and seems to have been a mate of Schumann's and a few of his works got in. The discs are an interesting early 19th century musical tour d'horizon from Schumann's point of view. Alongside famous names, many such "neglected" composers are included. Certainly of niche importance, but MusicWeb reviewed it - here, should anyone be interested.

[richardfinegold]

Kaiser Wilhelm II was exiled to Holland after WW1 and was supposed to have struck up a great friendship with a Dutch Composer. I can’t remember which one and whether he was included in the OP list

Rontgen?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Another almost forgotten composer, whose music was once considered to be in the top bracket, is Spohr, who even adorned the Novello front covers for many years:-

[Tony Halstead]

On a recent visit to the Concertgebouw I noted several of the names inscribed on the walls that I had never heard of - or, if I knew them, it was only incredibly vaguely. And yet these fellows were once considered important enough to earn a place alongside Wagner, Mozart and Bach. Are they justly neglected or are we missing something? Can anyone persuade me to add Zweers and Diepenbrock et al to my list of best-beloved?

Bernard Zweers
Alphons Diepenbrock
Cornelis Dopper
Julius Röntgen
Carl Reinecke
Cornelis Schuyt
Jacob Obrecht
Jacobus Clemens non Papa
Johan Wagenaar
Willem Pijper
Johannes Verhulst
Niels Gade

I’m rather surprised that those Concertgebouw names don’t include Johann Wilhelm Wilms (1772 -1847).
A few years ago I spent a very enjoyable few days in Hilversum conducting a 2-CD recording of 4 of his well-crafted symphonies (Op. 14, 23, 52 and 58), plus a set of variations on a traditional Dutch tune, comprising a Concertante for flute, clarinet, bassoon, violin, ‘cello and orchestra. The superb, versatile Netherlands Radio Chamber Orchestra (now sadly defunct as a result of the Dutch government’s devastating cuts to its arts budget) played this lovable music as if their lives depended on it, many of the players commenting that they couldn’t understand why Wilms’ music was so neglected. To summarise his musical style, I’d say that Schubert is a big influence, followed by Haydn in the Finales; there are some glimpses of Schumann and Beethoven in the slow movements.
I’m very glad that I had a lucky opportunity to get to know this composer in a hands-on way.

[vinteuil]

I’m rather surprised that those Concertgebouw names don’t include Johann Wilhelm Wilms (1772 -1847).
A few years ago I spent a very enjoyable few days in Hilversum conducting a 2-CD recording of 4 of his well-crafted symphonies (Op. 14, 23, 52 and 58), plus a set of variations on a traditional Dutch tune, comprising a Concertante for flute, clarinet, bassoon, violin, ‘cello and orchestra. The superb, versatile Netherlands Radio Chamber Orchestra (now sadly defunct as a result of the Dutch government’s devastating cuts to its arts budget) played this lovable music as if their lives depended on it, many of the players commenting that they couldn’t understand why Wilms’ music was so neglected. To summarise his musical style, I’d say that Schubert is a big influence, followed by Haydn in the Finales; there are some glimpses of Schumann and Beethoven in the slow movements.
I’m very glad that I had a lucky opportunity to get to know this composer in a hands-on way.

... yes to Wilms : this is nice, too -

http://amzn.eu/4XDljL3

.


.

[Nick Armstrong]

... yes to Wilms : this is nice -

http://amzn.eu/4XDljL3

.

Listening on Qobuz as I write, good stuff, thanks Monsieur v.

Ooh and now to your set, Tony

A few years ago I spent a very enjoyable few days in Hilversum conducting a 2-CD recording of 4 of his well-crafted symphonies (Op. 14, 23, 52 and 58), plus a set of variations on a traditional Dutch tune, comprising a Concertante for flute, clarinet, bassoon, violin, ‘cello and orchestra.

which is also on Qobuz I've just found

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Another almost forgotten composer, whose music was once considered to be in the top bracket, is Spohr, who even adorned the Novello front covers for many years:-

... and, of course, was interwoven with Bach and Beethoven at Classical Monday Pops.

Of the works by Spohr that I've ever heard (and there used to be more broadcasts in the '70s) I haven't really encountered anything that makes me think that there aren't many other figures more deserving of the "unjustly neglected" epithet.

[doversoul1]

I am almost sure that we have heard most of these composers’ works on Through the Night. It’s a great place, TTN.

[french frank]

Not surprisingly, the thread seems to edge towards the Unjustly neglected, rather than the Justly.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Not surprisingly, the thread seems to edge towards the Unjustly neglected, rather than the Justly.

Yes - I think that this might be because for most "neglected" composers, the very fact that they are neglected means that we don't get to judge for ourselves which ones are "unjustly" so treated; so we have to comment on those who we have heard. And, as we don't get to listen to works sufficiently frequently, it's easier to come to the conclusion from a single performance that "you can see why they're 'neglected', can't you?!"

For all I know, there are dozens of works by Spohr which I'd find terrific. But they don't get performed/broadcast, and my experience with those works of his that I have encountered hasn't made me keen to seek out any youTube recordings - so I may never know.

[Demetrius]

Niels Gade

Gade is definitely worth investigating. Let's just say that I've heard him derided as quoting Mendelssohn, even though the piece in question predated the Mendelssohn work he was "quoting".

If you are looking to broaden out, suffolkcoastal has created a good gateway for it here:

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?7547-Suffolkcoastal-s-Symphonic-Journey

[Richard Barrett]

For all I know, there are dozens of works by Spohr which I'd find terrific. But they don't get performed/broadcast, and my experience with those works of his that I have encountered hasn't made me keen to seek out any youTube recordings - so I may never know.

Since both Spohr and Mendelssohn have been mentioned, I will stick my neck out and say that I think Spohr is the more interesting composer of the two.

A very nice live performance of his 4th (!) double string quartet op.136 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL3qNLIJAG4