New Music Genres : 1945-1981 versus 1981-2017

[LMcD]

Unless wallpaper is all we are after?

Should we all flock to wallpaper? Discuss, using cut and paste where necessary.

[Lat-Literal]

Should we all flock to wallpaper? Discuss, using cut and paste where necessary.

My Wellbeing has just gone up.

It has a rather cool, modern feel but I suppose I will learn to live with it.

It isn't as if it is screaming Stockhausen's rodents.

Thank goodness for a post in this thread that I could understand!

One out of 32 ain't bad.

[Richard Barrett]

But if genre is mostly a matter of marketing how do music educators establish a canon to transmit to the young idea?

The question is: do music educators need to establish a canon? This music educator says no, and I'm sure MrGG, another music educator, will agree.

[Lat-Literal]

The question is: do music educators need to establish a canon? This music educator says no, and I'm sure MrGG, another music educator, will agree.

Would there, though, be a distinction in classical music?

Which is to say that classical music has a need not to box itself in whereas popular styles happily self-defined before the marketing people got involved?

[Richard Barrett]

Would there, though, be a distinction in classical music?

A distinction between what?

[MrGongGong]

The question is: do music educators need to establish a canon? This music educator says no, and I'm sure MrGG, another music educator, will agree.

You beat me to it

Which is NOT to say that there aren't differences or genres
but that Music Education is not necessarily concerned with "transmitting" a "canon".

It seems that the original poster seems to equate popularity with "success"
now back to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuwIsz2qggA

[Lat-Literal]

You beat me to it

Which is NOT to say that there aren't differences or genres
but that Music Education is not necessarily concerned with "transmitting" a "canon".

It seems that the original poster seems to equate popularity with "success"
now back to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuwIsz2qggA

Nice - but I'm not sure I would have chosen pink for those walls.

Or is it purple?

[Constantbee]

My Wellbeing has just gone up.

It has a rather cool, modern feel but I suppose I will learn to live with it.

It isn't as if it is screaming Stockhausen's rodents.


One out of 32 ain't bad.

Nice colours LL. I'm having Cherished Gold in the hall. One of the unusual recommended pairings is with something like Mint Macaroon. Pretty but I'm not brave enough. If I get it wrong it's a lot of paint down the drain

'Listen in colour ... ' er, that's the old Jazz fm station ad. btw Same funky chameleon on Jazz fm's logo also appears on the Wilko paint chart for 2017 BUT without his (her?) headphones. Must be the day job, I spose

Back to the thread ... acid jazz, gypsy jazz, brass house? Have we those yet?

[Lat-Literal]

Nice colours LL. I'm having Cherished Gold in the hall. One of the unusual recommended pairings is with something like Mint Macaroon. Pretty but I'm not brave enough. If I get it wrong it's a lot of paint down the drain

'Listen in colour ... ' er, that's the old Jazz fm station ad. btw Same funky chameleon on Jazz fm's logo also appears on the Wilko paint chart for 2017 BUT without his (her?) headphones. Must be the day job, I spose

Back to the thread ... acid jazz, gypsy jazz, brass house? Have we those yet?

I do love a post which confirms the truth in what I have said.

Mint Macaroon looks great in my kitchen and I did like the appearance of Cherished Gold.

But my hall is green or yellow depending on who is looking at it.

There's been fun and games with it.

Good luck with yours which hopefully will not be a party piece.

I have never heard of brass house - so interesting.

The other two are new to this thread and appropriate but don't tell Django I said so.

[Serial_Apologist]

But if genre is mostly a matter of marketing how do music educators establish a canon to transmit to the young idea?

Answer: put it on the conservatoire roof with a sign saying "Do not touch", and charge a tenner for people to come and see. Better still, site a telescope for viewing it on a building a mile away, and charge £20.

[Serial_Apologist]

Would there, though, be a distinction in classical music?

Which is to say that classical music has a need not to box itself in whereas popular styles happily self-defined before the marketing people got involved?

In the "West" classical music always had the marketing people, even if in early times the targetting strategy was mainly aimed for and at the "upper orders". Before that you can go back to the Church, but they too had their own marketing strategy, of course, which included music.

[cloughie]

I would like to suggest that there were 10 times more new music genres in the 36 year period 1945-1981 than there were in the 36 year period 1981-2017.

Why, if true, should this have been the case?

You chose to split the period into two - had you chosen 1945-1969/1970-1994/1995-2018 you would have had the large number in the middle time-range, when a lot of newgenres appeared and others were designated retrospectively. When did rockabilly appear, or do wopp, heavy metal, prog rock, underground and record labels to distinguish When did pop spawn rock as distinct from rock'n'roll, folk music spawn World and fused with rock to give us folk-rock and so on and on, then there was glam rock, disco, punk and then all these dance things -when did ska develop into reggae? Some were late sixties but most 70 to 94!

[greenilex]

Sorry, but I think talking about the Church’s marketing strategy in the past tense is misleading...

[Serial_Apologist]

Sorry, but I think talking about the Church’s marketing strategy in the past tense is misleading...

Well I was restricting my "observations" to Lat's question with its implication of classical music being immune from market trends (if that's what he means), while trying to appear "ironic", because one way to ensure captive audience participation was to pose two alternative routes in the afterlife according to conduct in this one. Are you thinking of the present day cross-denominational embrace of black Gospel music as a congregation-pulling strategy? Insofar as Pentecostal branches are among the few gaining bigger attendances, the music could be regarded as an important gateway (to heaven) in their marketing, and they would seem to be succceeding!

[Lat-Literal]

You chose to split the period into two - had you chosen 1945-1969/1970-1994/1995-2018 you would have had the large number in the middle time-range, when a lot of newgenres appeared and others were designated retrospectively. When did rockabilly appear, or do wopp, heavy metal, prog rock, underground and record labels to distinguish When did pop spawn rock as distinct from rock'n'roll, folk music spawn World and fused with rock to give us folk-rock and so on and on, then there was glam rock, disco, punk and then all these dance things -when did ska develop into reggae? Some were late sixties but most 70 to 94!

Thank you for your contribution cloughie.

I always appreciate your contributions and enjoy reading them but I don't think I can agree with you on this one.

If anything, I felt that the iffier bit of what I was saying involved not taking on board what was happening prior to 1945. Not after 1981. A term like "the folk revival" was a mechanism for pretending away much earlier folk music trends for the sake of my argument although it could be justified on the grounds that there was a distinct folk revival in the 1960s. Country too has quite a lot of background prior to 1945 as does very obviously jazz though neither in more modern styles.

To address your questions, and you know this, rock and reggae definitely have their roots in the period 1945-1981 as do their immediate predecessors. World is trickier because the marketing term which I support is by committee from the early/mid 1980s but there is enough prior to it via the popularity of Masekela and Makeba and many others for it to be rooted for western purposes in the 50s/60s. Rockabilly is also in the time period. Doo-wop too - with a few earlier roots.