Enigma?

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  • gradus
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 5607

    #31
    From 2010, but I'm afraid I didn't record the author so my apologies to him/her:


    'There are many reasons to believe that Elgar's enigma has been revealed (as confirmed by his 1929 notes.) Here are a few:

    1. Elgar's Enigma Variation (EV) were about his "circle" of friends. A constant in all circles is Pi.

    2. Pi is usually approximated as 3.142 as a decimal or 22/7 as a fraction.

    3. The first four notes of EV are scale degree 3-1-4-2, decimal Pi.

    4. In 1929, Elgar wrote that the drop of the seventh in bars 3 and 4 should be observed.

    5. These 2/7 follow exactly after the first 11 notes. ie: 11 x 2/7 = 22/7, fractional Pi.

    6. Elgar wrote EV in the year following the ridiculous Indiana Pi Bill of 1897 which attempted to legislate the value of Pi.

    7. Elgar wrote that there was a "dark saying that shall remain unguessed." Could that be, "Four and twenty blackbirds (dark) baked in a Pie (Pi)?

    8. There are exactly four and twenty black notes (with wings- slurs, or ties) in the first six measures of EV which contain Pi.

    9. Elgar wrote that the EV were begun in a spirit of humour.

    10. Elgar often said that the enigma was well known. Pi is taught to nearly everyone as part of a basic education.

    11. In 1929 Elgar was 72, in ill-health and many of his friends had died. He probably wanted to leave some confirmation of the enigma's solution since he might not be there to do so. He wrote 3 sentences which contain 3 hints at fractional Pi.

    12. In the first sentence he wrote of two quavers and two crotchets- at hint at "22" (of 22/7).

    13. In the second sentence he referred to the drop of the seventh in 3rd and 4th bar.

    14. In the third sentence he referred to "bar 7" which is a hint at "/7" of 22/7.

    15. Elgar was known for his interest in puzzles and his love of japes (jokes).

    16. Pi fits all of the clues given in Elgar's 1899 program notes.

    17. Pi is the "Theme" in the literary sense. It is the idea or concept behind the work. It is "never heard." It is "off-stage."


    Could this be the "real" solution? What do YOU think?'

    Search me.

    Comment

    • vinteuil
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 12815

      #32
      Originally posted by gradus View Post
      17. Pi is the "Theme" in the literary sense. It is the idea or concept behind the work. It is "never heard." It is "off-stage."


      Could this be the "real" solution? What do YOU think?
      ... well of course this must be true.

      1.When we think of Elgar, what do we think of? Yes, the Malverns.

      2. When we think of the Malverns, what do we think of? Yes, the great sky experienced there.

      3. When we think of the sky, what do we think of? Yes, pies.

      QED - pie in the sky = Malverns = Elgar.

      What could be simpler?

      /

      Comment

      • HighlandDougie
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 3090

        #33
        Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
        ... well of course this must be true.

        1.When we think of Elgar, what do we think of? Yes, the Malverns.

        2. When we think of the Malverns, what do we think of? Yes, the great sky experienced there.

        3. When we think of the sky, what do we think of? Yes, pies.

        QED - pie in the sky = Malverns = Elgar.

        What could be simpler?

        /
        I almost fell off my chair laughing - you have made my day .....

        Comment

        • ahinton
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 16122

          #34
          Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
          ... well of course this must be true.

          1.When we think of Elgar, what do we think of? Yes, the Malverns.

          2. When we think of the Malverns, what do we think of? Yes, the great sky experienced there.

          3. When we think of the sky, what do we think of? Yes, pies.

          QED - pie in the sky = Malverns = Elgar.

          What could be simpler?
          Well, it's certainly a good deal simpler than gradus' one above!

          Comment

          • ahinton
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 16122

            #35
            Originally posted by gradus View Post
            From 2010, but I'm afraid I didn't record the author so my apologies to him/her:


            'There are many reasons to believe that Elgar's enigma has been revealed (as confirmed by his 1929 notes.) Here are a few:

            1. Elgar's Enigma Variation (EV) were about his "circle" of friends. A constant in all circles is Pi.

            2. Pi is usually approximated as 3.142 as a decimal or 22/7 as a fraction.

            3. The first four notes of EV are scale degree 3-1-4-2, decimal Pi.

            4. In 1929, Elgar wrote that the drop of the seventh in bars 3 and 4 should be observed.

            5. These 2/7 follow exactly after the first 11 notes. ie: 11 x 2/7 = 22/7, fractional Pi.

            6. Elgar wrote EV in the year following the ridiculous Indiana Pi Bill of 1897 which attempted to legislate the value of Pi.

            7. Elgar wrote that there was a "dark saying that shall remain unguessed." Could that be, "Four and twenty blackbirds (dark) baked in a Pie (Pi)?

            8. There are exactly four and twenty black notes (with wings- slurs, or ties) in the first six measures of EV which contain Pi.

            9. Elgar wrote that the EV were begun in a spirit of humour.

            10. Elgar often said that the enigma was well known. Pi is taught to nearly everyone as part of a basic education.

            11. In 1929 Elgar was 72, in ill-health and many of his friends had died. He probably wanted to leave some confirmation of the enigma's solution since he might not be there to do so. He wrote 3 sentences which contain 3 hints at fractional Pi.

            12. In the first sentence he wrote of two quavers and two crotchets- at hint at "22" (of 22/7).

            13. In the second sentence he referred to the drop of the seventh in 3rd and 4th bar.

            14. In the third sentence he referred to "bar 7" which is a hint at "/7" of 22/7.

            15. Elgar was known for his interest in puzzles and his love of japes (jokes).

            16. Pi fits all of the clues given in Elgar's 1899 program notes.

            17. Pi is the "Theme" in the literary sense. It is the idea or concept behind the work. It is "never heard." It is "off-stage."


            Could this be the "real" solution? What do YOU think?'

            Search me.
            I just wonder what Busoni might have made of all of this; it might even have discouraged him from conducting the work!

            Comment

            • Serial_Apologist
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 37674

              #36
              Originally posted by ahinton View Post
              Well, it's certainly a good deal simpler than gradus' one above!
              Improbable though. Sky hadn't yet been invented.

              Comment

              • ahinton
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 16122

                #37
                Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                Improbable though. Sky hadn't yet been invented.
                !!! Ah, them's was the days!...

                Comment

                • Keraulophone
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 1945

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                  Bar 15: tune is A,G not Bb, A.

                  Comment

                  • ahinton
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 16122

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Keraulophone View Post
                    Bar 15: tune is A,G not Bb, A.
                    It is indeed; you beat me to it!

                    Comment

                    • Eine Alpensinfonie
                      Host
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 20570

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Keraulophone View Post
                      Bar 15: tune is A,G not Bb, A.


                      Comment

                      • gradus
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 5607

                        #41
                        On the other hand:
                        For decades, musicologists, cryptologists and music lovers have searched for the phantom melody of Edward Elgar’s "Enigma Variations."


                        etc ad infinitum....

                        Comment

                        • Eine Alpensinfonie
                          Host
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 20570

                          #42
                          I think the theory under discussion is about as crazy at it gets.

                          "Ein feste Burg" (A Mighty Fortress) is played in retrograde "through and over" the Enigma Theme from Elgar's Enigma Variations. 144 matching notes between "...

                          Comment

                          • Pabmusic
                            Full Member
                            • May 2011
                            • 5537

                            #43
                            Occam with his razor would no doubt have had a field-day with this over-conmplcated solution. For me it always reverts to the same thing. If there is any truth in Elgar's oft-told tale of Alice's recognising something of worth among his absent-minded musings at the end of a weary day, then there cannot be a carefully worked-out solution. And since Elgar freely told his tale during the composition, yet the enigma didn't emerge till after the score was finished, I know where Occam's razor would cut deepest.

                            Comment

                            • LeMartinPecheur
                              Full Member
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 4717

                              #44
                              Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                              Improbable though. Sky hadn't yet been invented.
                              Wasn't it always above the roof?
                              I keep hitting the Escape key, but I'm still here!

                              Comment

                              • Serial_Apologist
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 37674

                                #45
                                Originally posted by LeMartinPecheur View Post
                                Wasn't it always above the roof?
                                Maybe, but it wasn't always on the stock markets.

                                Comment

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