I came across this Radio 4 programme earlier today. The bit we're all interested in is 16 minutes and 15 seconds in. Have a listen - what do YOU think?
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Well, interesting. And here's an account of his research. He sounds pretty … convinced - as are they all.It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world. -
These things are always fun - pattern-seeking by creatures that have brains that have evolved to seek patterns. The problem is always that, for any solution to be true that implies Elgar's having thought it out in advance makes a mockery of the tale he told repeatedly (from before the first performance) that he absent-mindedly stumbled on something when he was relaxing at the piano, and that it took Alice's intervention to draw his mind to it. That started a game between the two in which Elgar mimicked characteristics of friends. The word 'Enigma' was not added to the score until March 1899 (in Jaeger's hand, and above the first six bars).Comment
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So you are saying that it emanated from an "in game".Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
Craeg Lea, Malvern – 1899 to 1904
In 1899, possibly motivated by Edward's increasing fame and a desire to reflect that status, the Elgars decided to quit Forli for something grander. They chose a house on the Wells Road about a mile south of the centre of Malvern. They named the house Craeg Lea, an anagram of C(arice), A(lice) and E(dward) Elgar.Comment
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Well, I do like that!Originally posted by Lat-Literal View PostSo you are saying that it emanated from an "in game".
Craeg Lea, Malvern – 1899 to 1904
In 1899, possibly motivated by Edward's increasing fame and a desire to reflect that status, the Elgars decided to quit Forli for something grander. They chose a house on the Wells Road about a mile south of the centre of Malvern. They named the house Craeg Lea, an anagram of C(arice), A(lice) and E(dward) Elgar.Comment
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Yes - interesting: the programme could have done with a clear musical example. I look forward to further posts here!Comment
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I obtained the information about the house - same year - from the NT website.Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
But the leap - same game - is all mine and it was made before I found out about the house.
I just followed up the idea of an anagram with "did Elgar enjoy anagrams?"
Answer : "Obviously, yes".
On the basis of what you have said, I no longer believe that a tune is involved.
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To be fair, I did know about Craeg Lea, but did you know that Carice = Caroline Alice?Originally posted by Lat-Literal View PostI obtained the information about the house - same year - from the NT website.
But the leap - same game - is all mine and it was made before I found out about the house.
I just followed up the idea of an anagram with "did Elgar enjoy anagrams?"
On the basis of what you have said, I no longer believe that a tune is involved.Comment
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No, I didn't.Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
Interesting.
Born 1890 - so I suppose we could see if there is any other music as well as names during the 1890s with a title that fits this pattern.
I have a personal angle here.
My first name is my mother's three initials before she was married and my father's two Christian names scrambled together, followed by a "y" (why?).
Together, they are not an invented name but one that is reasonably common - for some odd reason, my father had toiled over it for a very long time!Comment
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Elgar invented 'Carice' in 1888 from Alice's names. He used it in the dedication of Salut d'Amour. Then they gave it to their child.Originally posted by Lat-Literal View PostNo, I didn't.
Interesting.
Born 1890 - so I suppose we could see if there is any other music as well as names during the 1890s with a title that fits this pattern.
I have a personal angle here.
My first name is my mother's three initials before she was married and my father's two Christian names scrambled together, followed by a "y" (why?).
Together, they are not an invented name but one that is reasonably common - for some odd reason, my father had toiled over it for a very long time!Comment
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Well, there we are to some extent. The Victorians loved anagrams.Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
But isn't a part of the Enigma simply a working through of who the people were in this piece dedicated to 'To my friends pictured within'?
Troyte Griffith, Isabel Fitton, etc, notwithstanding that the latter adopts an "o" and a "y" from Troyte to become Ysobel?
Anyhow, just get that "in" in "pictured within". As in my "in game"! I'm warming to my own theory more and more.
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I truly think you're onto something, Lat.Originally posted by Lat-Literal View PostWell, there we are to some extent. The Victorians loved anagrams.
But isn't a part of the Enigma simply a working through of who the people were in this piece dedicated to 'To my friends pictured within'?
Troyte Griffith, Isabel Fitton, etc, notwithstanding that the latter adopts an "o" and a "y" from Troyte to become Ysobel?
Anyhow, just get that "in" in "pictured within". As in my "in game"! I'm warming to my own theory more and more.
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I can understand - perhaps - a Texan proposing Ein Feste Burg - but a Catholic from provincial Worcestershire, who's about to start on The Dream of Gerontius? Hmmm...
And that's ignoring the more serious point I've already raised.Comment
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I have been reliably consistent like this ever since you confirmed you were not living in Cadiz.Originally posted by Pabmusic View PostI truly think you're onto something, Lat.
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Clearly the turning point. How about this remarkable coincidence - my daughter's name is Carice! Remarkable!Originally posted by Lat-Literal View PostI have been reliably consistent like this ever since you confirmed you were not living in Cadiz.Comment
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