I like it, I like it not

[french frank]

Following on from comments made on the Ess Cla thread, and Lord Gould's suggestion of a poll of some sort, perhaps we could bring together some thoughts about Radio 3's current classical music output? Concise(!) points about it without the whys and wherefores:

Don't like: Hours on end of presenter-led programming with multifarious unrelated single tracks averaging about 9 minutes (Breakfast, Essential Classics, Saturday Classics, Sunday Morning &c) and none of the hefty 'great works', ever.

Like: Sadly, I stopped being a Radio 3 listener about 10 years ago (when Breakfast and Essential Classics started) so there isn't anything I listen to anyway

[Beef Oven!]

I just can't articulate what I think about Radio 3. I'm trapped between being essentially a populist and a wannabe intellectual.

Like: Concert broadcasts, H&N, TTN & BaL because of a lack of unrelated short tracks. But I like Late Junction.

Don't like: Bits and pieces of music thrown together, seemingly without context.

[Bryn]

Damn it frenchie, when I were a lad all we had was the Third, and that had no morning, or through the night programming, and a lot more time was devoted to science matters than is the case today. The lunchtime, afternoon and evening music programming remains pretty damned decent, and there's more of it than in days or yore. I don't like or listen to much on Radio 3 between the end of TtN and Composer of the Week Monday to Friday, and am not much attracted to Saturday afternoon or Sunday morning fare, but I do not begrudge that aspect of weekend programming to others.

[french frank]

The lunchtime, afternoon and evening music programming remains pretty damned decent,

Someone mentioned that the lunchtime recitals had been getting rather bitty. Not sure whether that was part of the festivals 'round-up' (but don't they have whole recitals?).

[oddoneout]

I like the fact that it exists at all. While there is life there is hope.
I don't like the disconnect between its audience and those in charge of the service, which increasingly means that the listeners aren't happy and look elsewhere for their music. As a way of running down a radio station to extinction it may be effective but as a way of ensuring access to the widest range and highest standard of music it[insert term of choice]

[Lat-Literal]

Like: Most of the schedule but there is a hole in the middle and it is 9am-Midday weekdays. It needs to be much more distinctive rather than simply a run-on from Breakfast on 3. I don't have an answer to this slot but sense it would be in the form of a 9am-10am and 10am-Midday programme. The first might well include an element of truly educational speech.

Don't like: 1. News - R4 extra doesn't have it or need it. R3 should be the same. 2. Trailers. 3. The absence elsewhere on the BBC and in other media of modern, overtly commercial promotion. This would focus hugely on R3 not having annoying commercials unlike competitors and the branding would be populist. If anything, actual programme content would in parallel be in the opposite direction, ie less populist. The main reason why CFM outperforms R3 to such an extent is simply that people know about it. 4. The axing of World Routes. 5. The absence of a regular weekly programme on classical music from the late romantic period, ie about 1880 to 1930?

6. I think the plays could be more appealing - I rarely listen to them - but I don't have any suggestions for a different direction. 7. To know what is going on in any week in British classical music or classical music across the world, you have to tune into individual programmes like Breakfast on 3 or In Tune. It would be better to have a classical news round-up. Actually, make that classical, jazz and world - new releases, latest performances, dates to get tickets for forthcoming events - and you might just have the makings of a 9am-10am programme, Mon-Fri or at least on two or three of those days. 8. The ratings emphasis - it is irrelevant to standards.

I toy with the idea of short weekly programmes along the lines of black composers, women composers, Latin composers, British composers and American composers. This fits my own perspective well and more importantly would draw in a wider range of people, especially re the first three. But, I'm not sure if it is the right approach for the station and loyal listeners.

I assume that there is already a reasonable listenership Stateside and worldwide which could easily be built upon and which is almost certainly not included in the quarterly figures? If so, let's get in far more interaction with the World Service even if it is only in constant references to the station. One answer to naysayers is "R3 is not just for domestic consumption"!

[Petrushka]

The Proms, Radio 3 in Concert and Choral Evensong are the triple glories of Radio 3 and have been for very many years, each of them an oasis amongst the daily dross elsewhere
and each worth the licence fee alone.

Never listen to playlist programmes and if people don't like them I don't know why they don't just do the same.

[pastoralguy]

Never listen to playlist programmes and if people don't like them I don't know why they don't just do the same.

That's exactly how I feel, Pet. I usually have those 'playlist' programmes on in the morning as I attend to my ablutions, chores, driving or dozing. Occasionally, I hear a piece of music that makes me LISTEN with both ears and it may send me to my cd shelves or Amazon or Presto but it's just music in the background.

What's always hacked me off is that there's a thread devoted to, basically, slagging off these 'playlist' programmes.

Item. My late father-in-law, who was Principal of a school for deaf children, made a tremendous effort to establish ties with an equivalent school in Syria. Pupils from this school visited Scotland. Pupils from Scotland visited Syria. Many of these Syrian teachers and pupils are now dead.

Some forthrightly expressed opinions in singularly un-pastoral vocabulary removed here - Ed

[Alison]

I see I have never contributed to the Essential Classics thread! Phew!

[DracoM]

Likes:
Drama - rarely miss a play.
Lunchtime concerts when I can.
Choral Evensong always
LJ - often
Jazz Record Requests - very regularly
CoTW as often as poss.

Dislikes:
NEVER EssClass - used to, but it's just too teeth-grindingly frustrating
Switch off anything with Philip Dodd or Ian Macmillan leading
Breakfast
In Tune
Choir and Organ [ Sorry, but SMP is a toe-curling no-no, and anyway it's just jumbled 'tracks']
Mix-tape.

Rarely Afternoon on 3.
Some Proms.

[french frank]

What's always hacked me off is that there's a thread devoted to, basically, slagging off these 'playlist' programmes.

Good grief, pg, there are no threads devoted to "slagging off' the programmes: people are free to express whatever opinion they like. They attract attention because, in the case of Breakfast and Essential Classics, those two programmes take up the most popular time for listening to the radio - breakfast time until midday. A majority of people want to listen then, so it matters to them what is being broadcast. And it matters to them if it's something that they find unappealing.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The "you don't have to listen" argument is no more helpful here than it was on the Winter Olympics Thread - with falling Rajar figures, and frequent posts on the Forum, it seems that increasing numbers of people have already chosen not to listen (regardless of whatever bedroom activities they are or are not involved in). This can only be bad news for the BBC - or for those who support R3 at any rate. What frenchie is suggesting is exactly the opposite of "slagging off" R3 content - it is an invitation for Forumistas to make clear what current content most appeals to them, and what makes them turn off (or not turn on in the first place) with a view to identifying more precisely what our overall enthusiasms and dislikes are (rather than the general "feeling" of what these likes/dislikes are).

Occasionally, various bods at R3 invite comment from concerned listeners (including from this Forum) - if there were a future such invitation, it would be very useful for us to be able to point out what areas of content and presentation are the things that most of us enjoy (and for these reasons) and what corresponding areas most of us dislike (and for what reasons).

[pastoralguy]

The "you don't have to listen" argument is no more helpful here than it was on the Winter Olympics Thread - with falling Rajar figures, and frequent posts on the Forum, it seems that increasing numbers of people have already chosen not to listen (regardless of whatever bedroom activities they are or are not involved in). This can only be bad news for the BBC - or for those who support R3 at any rate. What frenchie is suggesting is exactly the opposite of "slagging off" R3 content - it is an invitation for Forumistas to make clear what current content most appeals to them, and what makes them turn off (or not turn on in the first place) with a view to identifying more precisely what our overall enthusiasms and dislikes are (rather than the general "feeling" of what these likes/dislikes are).

Occasionally, various bods at R3 invite comment from concerned listeners (including from this Forum) - if there were a future such invitation, it would be very useful for us to be able to point out what areas of content and presentation are the things that most of us enjoy (and for these reasons) and what corresponding areas most of us dislike (and for what reasons).

Point taken. But I do wonder what the alternative is. I've always believed that the BBC employ top people so what's the alternative to the current crop of presenters? And do we really want Bruckner's 8th Symphony in the morning? I, (genuinely!), wonder how many listeners have the time and concentration to devote their full attention at that time of the day.

[french frank]

I've always believed that the BBC employ top people so what's the alternative to the current crop of presenters?

One point I would query is that for several years now Radio 3 seems to have been forced (?) to engage presenters from other BBC stations, network and local radio. It's sometimes hard to believe that some of them are even very interested in classical music. Or at least they know rather less than the average listener and their musical interests lie elsewhere. But I'm always charitable : my target is (almost) always the BBC rather than Radio 3.

[doversoul1]

Point taken. But I do wonder what the alternative is. I've always believed that the BBC employ top people so what's the alternative to the current crop of presenters? And do we really want Bruckner's 8th Symphony in the morning? I, (genuinely!), wonder how many listeners have the time and concentration to devote their full attention at that time of the day.

I think we keep on and on about it because we believe improvement is possible with, as you say, so many excellent presenters and I assume production teams just as excellent. If enough thoughts are given to the way in which the programmes are presented/structured, I think Bruckner in the morning is not out of question.

Like, always: Early Music Late, Early Music Show, Through the Night, Record Review, Composer of the Week.
Like: Lunchtime Concert, Thursday Opera Matinee*, Radio 3 in Concert
Dislike: Breakfast, Essential Classic (in particular, presented by SK)
Not usually incline to listen: Sunday Morning, Saturday Classics
Like enough: Free Thinking, Essay
* I appreciate it being included so that there is a chance to hear the works I like.