I like it, I like it not

[oddoneout]

That's a really interesting one - which ought to have its own thread (not about 'what I like, don't like' about Radio 3 as it is.

Statement: what it aims to achieve. How to achieve it, what kind of programming.

I'm sure Radio 3 would be very interested in any new ideas on the subject. My defeatist reaction is No, no, no, for reasons which could be expanded. (Btw, we are all 'adult learners' aren't we? Or do some of us exclude ourselves?)

I would hope that as sentient beings we are all learners, but it has to be said some(talking about the world beyond the Forum here, lest any take umbrage) are more open to the concept than others....But yes I see it as a major part of R3 remit to enable continued learning, whether structured and deliberate or by enabling exposure to a wide variety of musical experience(with certain caveats). For all its current failings and shortcomings it is still more likely than not that I will hear something unfamiliar on R3 on any given day's listening, whether that unfamiliarity is composer, piece,performer, instrument, information.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

That's a really interesting one - which ought to have its own thread (not about 'what I like, don't like' about Radio 3 as it is.

Statement: what it aims to achieve. How to achieve it, what kind of programming.

I'm sure Radio 3 would be very interested in any new ideas on the subject. My defeatist reaction is No, no, no, for reasons which could be expanded. (Btw, we are all 'adult learners' aren't we? Or do some of us exclude ourselves?)

None of likes to admit we are wrong, and the BBC is no exception. A few years ago, they introduced a new weather map projection that appeared to be a view from above Spain, with a substantial south coast and a receeding Scotland. They did take some notice, and came up with a compromise that looked as though it were a view from above France. A slight improvement, but the south still appeared large, with a diminished Scotland:-



It's like half admitting you're wrong. They stuck with it for years, but relented three weeks ago with a flat projection with only a smidgeon of distortion:-






So maybe there some hope for Radio 3.

[Serial_Apologist]

They still used a map with a reduced Scotland when they come to do the "this is the position at 8 am" view, that just looks down on Scotland, Wales, the west midlands and south-west, ignoring the north-east, east and home counties, which then get no further look in. I know this for sure, being as I am a fervent weather observer who has looked with ever-growing fury at the BBC's (and other broadcasting services') periodic upgrades to their presentations. As for the new on-line, I've given up treating it as a useful source.

[Constantbee]

I'm sure Radio 3 would be very interested in any new ideas on the subject. My defeatist reaction is No, no, no, for reasons which could be expanded. (Btw, we are all 'adult learners' aren't we? Or do some of us exclude ourselves?)

I had a chance to think about this overnight and thought may a couple of examples of good practice might be in order, 'accentuate the positive', sort of thing. I, too, was overwhelmed with feelings of negativity, but ...

1. Couple of weeks ago Tom Service did a feature on musical style in The Listening Service. How do you identify the style of a piece of music? What does it tell you about when it was written and what for? That's directly relevant to the aural test component (listening test worth about 10% of the marks) of a lot of exams. Candidates also have to be able to describe the structure and compositional devices used, like phrase length, cadences, ornamentation, etc. People find this hard, and the further they progress the harder it gets.

2. David Owen Norris's Chord of the Week on TV during The Proms last year was good. Here he is talking about a dominant 13th in the 3rd inversion from Elgar's 2nd symphony.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05dpw79

I don't expect a lecture series but little things like these now and again make all the difference. Maybe I'll collect some more.

[french frank]

I had a chance to think about this overnight and thought may a couple of examples of good practice might be in order, 'accentuate the positive', sort of thing. I, too, was overwhelmed with feelings of negativity, but ...

Thank you for responding . I think I would divide the (perceived!) problem up into - at least - three topics:

1. Possibly the easiest: Content (which I assume would vary depending on audience: children, students, 'adult learners'; slightly more difficult would be placing it in the schedule - where and when, how much time does it get

2. What are you aiming to achieve? More listeners for Radio 3? Or developing a 'replenisher' audience of informed listeners (rather than demographic replenishers in the 35-54 age groups), much as Newman and Wood set out to 'create an audience' for 'good' [sic ] music in setting up the Proms?

3. The most difficult nowadays: how do you get your audience to listen to your programmes, given that there is no shortage of material readily available to suit their tastes? Does anyone think (and they did apparently think it 15 years ago) that luring people over to Radio 3 with good things that they know and like will result in them finding and enjoying your programmes specially curated for them? You have to read what they say about Radio 3's programmes to be disabused. At best they will stick to the bait programmes (Late Junction, Andy Kershaw, Brian Kay's Light Programme, Stage and Screen &c &c); at worst they will start agitating for more of 'their' programmes and get rid of all the dross which 'no one listens to'.

Put on a Pet Shops Boys Prom and they'll flock in to hear the Pet Shop Boys. Why should that lead them on to attend an 'ordinary' Prom any more than boxing or wrestling matches at the Alber' Hall.

When children can choose, they listen to Radio 1. No child will listen to Radio 3 unless guided there by a parent. But few parents listen to Radio 3. Radio 4 gave up its children's programmes because the audience had declined. Similarly, Radio 3 dropped Making Tracks because so few listeners had children of the target age group.

That's why I say No, no, no to programmes for children (don't get me started on students) on Radio 3.

That said, I think the BBC should be doing a whole lot more to offer younger audiences a proper alternative to n different kinds of popular music. The BBC are the ones who should be developing an audience for classical music. In my view

[Constantbee]

Thank you for responding .

No child will listen to Radio 3 unless guided there by a parent.

... or a teacher ... or their friends?

One guiding principle might be 'music by young people for young people'. Saxophonist Jess Gillam (BBC Young Musician 2016 prizewinner) on Saturday Classics was another of my examples of good practice

Children and young people's use of digital media is probably developing faster than many broadcasters can keep up with it. My guess is (only a guess) the BBC might not know enough yet about how C&YP access music and how and when they listen

If I think of anything else I'll put it on a thread in the 'General' section, I think

[oddoneout]

Further thoughts re the OP question
Likes: easy access(accidental in many cases) to types of music I otherwise wouldn't hear.
Dislikes: Jazz being in 2 back to back programmes, World Music being night-time. Both of these fall into the likes category and other things being equal I listen. The jazz binge can prove too much in its entirety for someone who's not a serious afficionado, and the late night World Music I now seem to miss out on completely(has it been at a different time in the past - I certainly seemed to catch it more often than I do now) - too late for the end of the day and too early for my all too frequent insomniac listening.
And yes I do realise there are solutions to both, but until I have the necessary bits and pieces that isn't an option; part of a more general grumble of mine about the extent to which services are not provided, but has to be put together by the individual, from what the relevant body sees fit to provide. Fine if you can do it, not fine if, for whatever reason you can't.
Even putting aside whether it's an option for everyone, the argument that listeners can cut and paste(aka curating I believe) their own vision/version of R3 is not a justification for poor provision by the 'mother ship' as far as I'm concerned.

[french frank]

Further thoughts re the OP question …

Saturday afternoons c. 2004 used to be called the "Jazz Zone" with three programmes: 4pm Jazz Line-Up; 5pm JRR; 6pm Jazz File. I think the idea was that it was for Radio 3's jazz aficionados, and that football notwithstanding they would listen for the whole time and then wander off. I do remember that there was an R4 Feedback where a jazz listener complained that it was 'too much at one time', and if I didn't imagine it, a footie fan here wasn't too keen on the Jazz Zone idea.

World Routes, of course (the only world programme I was likely to listen to) was also on Saturday afternoons. But then, Jazz File was the only jazz programme I was likely to listen to and both got the chop I can't grumble being only an occasional listener anyway. Btw, the jazz fans preferred Jazz on 3 (as was) on Fridays rather than Mondays, but the days were swapped over. Friday night was better for those who had to get up and go to work on a week day.

The trick is to puzzle out who they're trying to please and whether it works.

[oddoneout]

The trick is to puzzle out who they're trying to please and whether it works.

In my currently somewhat uncharitable frame of mind I reckon they're just trying to please themselves, and that's why it doesn't work. Having to dance to the tune of those higher up the food chain isn't to my mind much of a defence for the apparent disregard for the nature and wishes of the core listening audience.
I sometimes wonder if R3 is the not very interesting play table at BBC nursery which gets fiddled with periodically for want of anything better to do, and is occasionally subject to bigger interfernce from an over- enthusiastic adult coercing reluctant charges into trying something different. In between times it gets gradually more scruffy and less and less inviting.