Lesser-known orchestras

[Once Was 4]

I think there was a time when 'lower profile' orchestras could not have fielded a strong enough group to be worth recording. In fact, I have an Lp from the 1950's of Beethoven's 4th symphony played by a provincial British Orchestra which has some very shaky wind intonation at the beginning. However, with there being so many fabulous players coming out of music colleges these last twenty odd years, there is no reason why any professional orchestra should not have very fine players amongst its ranks.

I recently heard a broadcast that was extremely well played and convinced me it was an orchestra such as the Berlin Philharmonic. It was actually the BBC Welsh Symphony!

It is remarkable how many times somebody like me hears contemporaries saying things like "if I was starting these days I would never make it into the profession!" And these are often better players than me so I must take the inference.

I pulled out an LP the other day that I had not played for over 30 years; the orchestra is one of which I was quite a fan; and I am afraid that some of the playing (in particular inner parts) sounded quite poor.

There is an ex LSO player living in retirement near to Halifax; he started in the City of Birmingham SO in the early 50s and says that its standard then was roughly equal to one of the amateur orchestras in West Yorkshire.

I well remember being on tour in Spain in 2002; they have (had?) a classical music TV channel which had several local orchestras featured; some of the playing was quite dreadful. But have a look at this for what you can expect from Spain now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M9NOVjtvqU

[BBMmk2]

That orchestra that Alison mentioned on WAYLTN, Frankfurt Radio and Museum Orchestra. If I have the name right. Never heard of it!

[Bryn]

That orchestra that Alison mentioned on WAYLTN, Frankfurt Radio and Museum Orchestra. If I have the name right. Never heard of it!

Not quite the right name. Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankf...seumsorchester

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

That orchestra that Alison mentioned on WAYLTN, Frankfurt Radio and Museum Orchestra. If I have the name right. Never heard of it!

Nearly, but not quite, Bbm: it's the Frankfurt Opera & Museum Orchestra (so-called because the orchestra of Frankfurt Opera used to give orchestral concerts in Frankfurt Museum)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurter_Opern-_und_Museumsorchester

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Not quite the right name. Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankf...seumsorchester

Nearly, but not quite, Bbm: it's the Frankfurt Opera & Museum Orchestra (so-called because the orchestra of Frankfurt Opera used to give orchestral concerts in Frankfurt Museum)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankf...seumsorchester

SNAP!

[Bryn]

SNAP!

Pipped in a photo-finish, eh? A fair few recordings on the Oehms label.

[Bergonzi]

It is remarkable how many times somebody like me hears contemporaries saying things like "if I was starting these days I would never make it into the profession!" And these are often better players than me so I must take the inference.

I pulled out an LP the other day that I had not played for over 30 years; the orchestra is one of which I was quite a fan; and I am afraid that some of the playing (in particular inner parts) sounded quite poor.

There is an ex LSO player living in retirement near to Halifax; he started in the City of Birmingham SO in the early 50s and says that its standard then was roughly equal to one of the amateur orchestras in West Yorkshire.

I well remember being on tour in Spain in 2002; they have (had?) a classical music TV channel which had several local orchestras featured; some of the playing was quite dreadful. But have a look at this for what you can expect from Spain now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M9NOVjtvqU

Well, I'm not quite sure I would agree with this. There were plenty of fine players in the 1950's and 1960's. It's true that there are probably more excellent players coming out of Music Academies these days. On the other hand, we do not see any more particularly excellent conductors than in previous decades. I know that music colleges in the UK have advanced conducting courses (usually for two years) and these are mainly filled with foreign students and on the odd occasion I've gone to an open rehearsal it's quite obvious they have not got a clue!

[BBMmk2]

Thanks for the amendment! Most interesting to hear the reason why how an orchestra gets their name.

[Once Was 4]

Well, I'm not quite sure I would agree with this. There were plenty of fine players in the 1950's and 1960's. It's true that there are probably more excellent players coming out of Music Academies these days. On the other hand, we do not see any more particularly excellent conductors than in previous decades. I know that music colleges in the UK have advanced conducting courses (usually for two years) and these are mainly filled with foreign students and on the odd occasion I've gone to an open rehearsal it's quite obvious they have not got a clue!

Well there are a lot of young conductors about (British and otherwise) with superb techniques, crystal clear beats and, and, er, er superb techniques and crystal clear beats.

Just think of Sir John Barbirolli amongst many other now deceased maestri (and no, I do not think that the only good conductors are dead conductors ) Technically sometimes wayward to put it mildly but what wonderful results they produced! A more extreme case perhaps would be Wilhelm Furtwangler - these were really great men and great musicians - Sir John a wonderful human being as well. These things cannot be taught or trained into people and we are badly lacking them at the moment. There have been a couple of eulogies to certain modern star 'sticks' on this group when I have sat at this computer thinking "you cannot be serious!" Am I the only one?

[Bergonzi]

Well there are a lot of young conductors about (British and otherwise) with superb techniques, crystal clear beats and, and, er, er superb techniques and crystal clear beats.

Just think of Sir John Barbirolli amongst many other now deceased maestri (and no, I do not think that the only good conductors are dead conductors ) Technically sometimes wayward to put it mildly but what wonderful results they produced! A more extreme case perhaps would be Wilhelm Furtwangler - these were really great men and great musicians - Sir John a wonderful human being as well. These things cannot be taught or trained into people and we are badly lacking them at the moment. There have been a couple of eulogies to certain modern star 'sticks' on this group when I have sat at this computer thinking "you cannot be serious!" Am I the only one?

Superb techniques and crystal clear beats are not enough. Someone like Reggie Goodall had nothing like a clear beat but no one knew (along with he himself) how he shaped the music in a way that hardly anyone else has managed to achieve. I agree totally with the bits I've underlined in bold in your reply. I think we are on the same wavelength.

And yes, some conductors get some high praise here on the forum, but I can't take that seriously either!

[EdgeleyRob]

This afternoon, Alexander Armstrong (yes, I know.....) included a movement from the Piano Concerto No. 2 by Cipriani Potter, recorded by Howard Shelley with tghe Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra.

This combination has featured in many of the Hyperion Romantic Piano Concerto recordings

[Tony Halstead]

This combination has featured in many of the Hyperion Romantic Piano Concerto recordings

Yes I have that recording and I'm amazed that Howard still employs them despite their ... oh dear... dare I say... mediocrity...!

[EdgeleyRob]

Yes I have that recording and I'm amazed that Howard still employs them despite their ... oh dear... dare I say... mediocrity...!

Maybe they need to be conducted rather than directed from the piano by Mr Shelley

[BBMmk2]

Maybe they need to be conducted rather than directed from the piano by Mr Shelley

Although his Beethoven cycle on Chandos is quite good, imo.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Although his Beethoven cycle on Chandos is quite good, imo.

But that's with a different orchestra, Bbm- one of the very best there is!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Complete-Works-Orchestra-Chandos/dp/B005PZFEAQ