Dutoit in the dock

[Dave2002]

These days it would be regarded as 'emotional abuse'; and it did not stop at that: I still hear people of my generation talking about how their teachers had an unerring aim when throwing a wooden-backed blackboard duster - I was on the receiving end of a few!

If they were ever aimed at me I always managed to duck, so someone behind me "got it".

I guess anyone who threw such an object these days would immediately be suspended, then drummed out of teaching. As it happens I thought some of the teachers with that particular habit were actually OK - not that I'd condone such physical activity now.

[Lat-Literal]

Whilst I have cautioned on here before for the need to remember that all are innocent until proven guilty the allegations against Dutoit are serious and apparently compelling.

I think associating the abuse of power with feminism or women embracing sexual freedom is pretty disgraceful and a variation on the theme of “ she was asking for it by wearing a short skirt” variety .

It does kind of overlook the fact that men have always had a good deal of 'sexual freedom' … Is it 'feminism' for women to want the same freedoms as men? Statistically (I am subject to be corrected here) it has overwhelmingly been men abusing their power, just as it has historically been men who have held the positions of power. Is it 'feminism' to feel that that should not be the invariable case?

That's the version which places the idea of women's reasonable expectations in the modern era as aspiring to the so-called alpha male. For all of the long hair on the heads of men in the sixties, and their apparent critique of the old soldiers in the boardrooms, the revolution with its cultural and technological changes increased the numbers of that type considerably.

Originally it seemed leftist but in less than two decades it was revealed as neoliberal. I just think it was and is the wrong socially dominant role model for either gender. Both should have found equality by painting pictures, composing symphonies and writing poetry rather than shagging all over the town, becoming experts at litigation and taking up kickboxing.

The artistic side gives to society "parentally". The current model is self celebration and a permanent readiness to attack or attack back with the need for a "parental" law to intervene when individuals find that they are limited. I am not suggesting at all that there aren't victims - there are many victims but they are ostensibly the victims of the social framework which enables individuals to sense power. My principal difference with fundamentalist religionists is that the imposition of other norms is not the answer. They are just another form of power. Change, to be effective, has to develop. That does require it having at least some cultural breathing space when currently it has none. The reason? Modern society is all about polarities.

[Stanfordian]

Leaving aside the politics of the subject (if that's possible) for a moment.....Dutoit and Levine are both men at the end of their careers, both financially secure and with a relatively short lifespan left ahead of them. Aside from being consigned to obloquy for the (possilbly) brief period remaining to them, how damaging can these charges (if true) prove?

Lest we forget, these are two of the most-recorded condctors in history....and Dutoit was a big seller in his day (his prime at the ONdeM coincided with the digital era's high summer). Recordings by both have littered the second-hand market for many years but I've not noticed an upsurge in donations since the charges were announced.

Hiya Conchis,

You make a most valid point. Their remaining lives may be short and many will have made loads of money but their reputation will be tarnished forever. Maybe they are not bothered about that but their families will have to suffer that sigma.

[mathias broucek]

....but their families will have to suffer that sigma.

I've already seen mud being thrown at Argerich on the basis that she "must have known" and did nothing

[Barbirollians]

I've already seen mud being thrown at Argerich on the basis that she "must have known" and did nothing

What offensive nonsense . It is in any event notable that she was only married to him for four years from 1969-73 and the allegations all post date the divorce .

[Beef Oven!]

I've already seen mud being thrown at Argerich on the basis that she "must have known" and did nothing

I hope she was unaware. It would be awful if she knew and didn't do anything. I guess we must just wait for things to run their course and not jump to any conclusions.

[Beef Oven!]

Do these organisations have prominent whistle-blowing policies and procedures?

[BBMmk2]

Like Barbs says, all the allegations are post being married to Dutoit.