Beethoven Triple Concerto

[Bryn]

We cannot be responsible for the personal taste of reviewers. Two early favouries of mine were: Fournier/Schneiderhan/Anda and Knushevitzky/Oborin/Oistrakh D

The former has somewhat painful associations for me. The LP was given me as a joint birthday present by an old flame and her new boyfriend (a jolly good chap) for my 16th birthday. I had dropped all the hints I could that Shostakovich's 1st Cello Concerto was something I would really appreciate a recording of, but what I got was the Beethoven. Must listen to the Fournier/Schneiderhan/Anda/Fricsay again, perhaps via QOBUZ streaming.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The Pianos were weak in the bass in the early 18th Century and some of the Cello parts were meant to reinforce the bass

Do you mean "the early 18 hundreds"?

This isn't entirely true, though many Music Histories used to make the claim - and some Music Students respectfully quoted the idea in their essays. I suspect that - like certain Music Students - they wrote from looking at the 'cello parts in early Piano Trios, and without having actually heard the instruments themselves. It's clear from hearing Haydn and Mozart piano sonatas written in the 1780s on instruments reproducing the construction of the instruments of that time that there is no sense of "weakness" in the Bass of the instruments - and from Mozart's Violin or Flute Sonatas played with a Piano of the 1760s, that there's no need for a 'cello to reinforce a piano left hand with a 'cello when there's an additional instrument on the "top" line.

It's true that Classical composers liked to double the bass line (all those Symphonies where Bassoons double 'cello parts) - but the 'cello in late 18th Century Piano Trios no more reinforce a weak piano bass, than the piano reinforces a weak 'cello line. And by the time Beethoven wrote the Triple Concerto (1803 - just six years before the Op 70 Piano Trios) the 'cello line is largely independent of the piano bass.

[Bryn]

One of my favourite Beethoven pieces - though undoubtedly less profound that some of the others in that same category. I've only heard two live performances - one was in London, many years ago, with the line-up alluded to by Bryn in #7: Collegium Aureum, Anner Bylsma, Paul Badura Skoda , and whoever was their leader - their recording was my introduction to the work. And the other was an amateur performance in Gloucestershire, 1990s, with my wife playing the cello solo.

In the past couple of years, two recordings have come out which very much suit my tastes for leaner, HIPP-influenced interpretations. Tetzlaff, Tetzlaff, Vogt & Northern Sinfonia was excerpted on Record Review recently: similar, but slightly more vivid, is Carmignola, Gabetta, Lazic & Kammerorchester Basel/Antonini.

The latter dismissed with not even faint praise by Richard Osborne in The Gramophone. Makes me eager to give it a hearing.

[Barbirollians]

The latter dismissed with not even faint praise by Richard Osborne in The Gramophone. Makes me eager to give it a hearing.

RO did not like the Tetzlaff much either he seems to have preferred the Antinoni but thought Carmignola and Gabetta were playing in a stylistically clashing manner .

I have never understood the description of the Oistrakh,Rostropovich and Richter as a disaster - seems very exciting to me .

[Barbirollians]

Has anyone mentioned the other old classic account from the 1960s with Stern,Rose,Istimun and Ormandy - a very unapologetic performance as I recall .Tempted to dig it out and play it before going to bed .

[Beef Oven!]

For some time now, I've had my eye on a Hi-Res download of Sol Gabetta, Giuliano Carmignola & Dejan Lazić with the Kammerorchester Basel conducted by Giovanni Antonini.

[kea]

One of the problems people complain about is the uneven distribution of the parts—the piano part being relatively easy, the violin part being somewhat difficult and the cello part being very difficult—which Schindler claims is because the piano part was written for the teenaged Archduke Rudolph whereas the other parts were written for professional musicians. It's not certain whether that's true.

[visualnickmos]

Has anyone mentioned the other old classic account from the 1960s with Stern,Rose,Istimun and Ormandy - a very unapologetic performance as I recall .Tempted to dig it out and play it before going to bed .

This is a fabulous performance, full of life and 'swagger' - it's included in the box set of LvB piano concertos (Fleisher/Szell/Cleveland)

[MickyD]

As I think I have mentioned before. I find it one of the most convivial concertos ever written. Love the PB-S et al recording with Collegium Aureum.

I had that LP, too and I agree with Bryn. Has there ever been a more recent HIP recording of the concerto? If not, we really do need one and have so many excellent artists who would be up to the job.

[teamsaint]

This is a fabulous performance, full of life and 'swagger' - it's included in the box set of LvB piano concertos (Fleisher/Szell/Cleveland)

I was listening to the HvK/Richter /Rostropovich/Oistrakh last night, and it occurred to me that plenty of what you call swagger was probably just what was needed in this, so I thought I would seek out such a recording. Anyway It's available on Youtube.

[BBMmk2]

I can see why it'is been ignored for many years, a lot of people say it's not top notch Beethoven but I think, because of it's underlying weaknesses, it is a thoroughly enjoyable. It could prove to be rather unwiedly as well, but it's these qualities that for me, bring about this work's attractiveness. For me yes the classic recording is the Cleveland orchestra, George Szell, Rostopovich and ?, but I also like the that's included in the Harnoncourt set.

[richardfinegold]

I can see why it'is been ignored for many years, a lot of people say it's not top notch Beethoven but I think, because of it's underlying weaknesses, it is a thoroughly enjoyable. It could prove to be rather unwiedly as well, but it's these qualities that for me, bring about this work's attractiveness. For me yes the classic recording is the Cleveland orchestra, George Szell, Rostopovich and ?, but I also like the that's included in the Harnoncourt set.

Another damning with faint praise. It is remarkable how many people over time feel compelled to say “By Beethoven’s lofty standards, the work is comparatively speaking, a piece of crap, but somehow I am able to wring some enjoyment out of listening to it”
Why is this not “top notch Beethoven “. I think that is in no way inferior to the first two PCs, or the VC. None of those works plumb the emotional depths of PCs 3&4, but they weren’t intended to. Beethoven’s Music explores many facets of life, and it wasn’t always shaking its fist at the world. In fact, if one removes the cadenzas from the VC, I would say that it and the Triple are virtual ties in the ‘profundity game’.
I also suspect that historically speaking, the ‘Polish-ness’ of the finale has hurt the work. The Germans have hated the Poles forever and no doubt more than a few of them regarded a Polonaise as a regrettable lapse by one of their Cultural icons

[cloughie]

The former has somewhat painful associations for me. The LP was given me as a joint birthday present by an old flame and her new boyfriend (a jolly good chap) for my 16th birthday. I had dropped all the hints I could that Shostakovich's 1st Cello Concerto was something I would really appreciate a recording of, but what I got was the Beethoven. Must listen to the Fournier/Schneiderhan/Anda/Fricsay again, perhaps via QOBUZ streaming.

Lay the ghost Bryn!

[vinteuil]

The former has somewhat painful associations for me. The LP was given me as a joint birthday present by an old flame and her new boyfriend (a jolly good chap) for my 16th birthday...

... you had an old flame when you were fifteen!?

Respect! (I think... )


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[Eine Alpensinfonie]

One of the problems people complain about is the uneven distribution of the parts—the piano part being relatively easy, the violin part being somewhat difficult and the cello part being very difficult.

Why do you think I'm learning the piano part?