What's the point of classical music videos?

[Dave2002]

I found this just now - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqv_-ll_LpE and watched a bit more than one minute of it. Possibly it was a good performance, but I found the video distracting.

Film makers have various theories and notions about how to make videos - cut on action, use 4-6 second clips, avoid jump cuts, don't go over the 180 degree line etc., but when it comes to classical music there is quite a lot to be said for not following most of these ideas, and just letting the music speak for itself.

On the other hand, a video which shows completely static viewpoints might get boring over long periods. So - does video ever work for classical music? I think it can, but has to be done very carefully, otherwise it'll totally take away from the performance.

One thing which is vital though is to have good sound quality. At least the viewer can then have the option of turning the video off!

In fairness the audio in the example Youtube video mentioned is acceptably good.

[Petrushka]

One major problem in watching music video, at least for me, is the fundamental difference between what the eyes and ears remember. Visual memory is much better than aural and this is why I find it difficult to watch music performance on video more than once or twice and with long gaps between them.

[pastoralguy]

For me, the benefits of classical video is that one can see as well as hear players that one could never have experienced in the flesh. Being able to watch Mr. Jascha Heifetz was, for me, an education in itself. The minimal movement, the unbelievable control and how he managed to produce such a wonderful sound with very fast Bow strokes. Obviously, being able to see Menuhin and Oistrakh in their prime is a real treat.

We are so lucky to be able to see these great artists long after they have passed away and they surely must give inspiration to a younger generation of musicians.

[richardfinegold]

For me, the benefits of classical video is that one can see as well as hear players that one could never have experienced in the flesh. Being able to watch Mr. Jascha Heifetz was, for me, an education in itself. The minimal movement, the unbelievable control and how he managed to produce such a wonderful sound with very fast Bow strokes. Obviously, being able to see Menuhin and Oistrakh in their prime is a real treat.

We are so lucky to be able to see these great artists long after they have passed away and they surely must give inspiration to a younger generation of musicians.

I learn quite a bit about which instrumental pairings are used to obtain certain effects. In Abbado Mahler series from Lucerne the director is quite good about this. If a certain chord is played by say a combination of Clarinet, bassoon and Horn, the film highlights those 3 players. One learns the same by attending a Concert, but at that moment I might be focusing on something else and miss that grouping. Videos are supplemental to the an actual concert but not a replacement

[Ferretfancy]

I learn quite a bit about which instrumental pairings are used to obtain certain effects. In Abbado Mahler series from Lucerne the director is quite good about this. If a certain chord is played by say a combination of Clarinet, bassoon and Horn, the film highlights those 3 players. One learns the same by attending a Concert, but at that moment I might be focusing on something else and miss that grouping. Videos are supplemental to the an actual concert but not a replacement

Nobody has yet devised a video grammar to be used for classical music, especially for orchestral performances. I worked on quite a few music documentaries where the mixture of interviews, performances and rehearsals did work quite well, but concert hall relays are often disappointing.

Most directors seem to expect the cameramen to follow the top line of the music, cutting to soloists where appropriate, pulling focus through the strings of the harp etc.etc. The problem for the attentive listener is that what goes on underneath the obvious material is what is often structurally of more importance. In opera we are too often made uncomfortably aware of the corny acting acting in close ups when we need a certain distance to properly appreciate the performance.

I went recently to the V& A to see the excellent exhibition Opera, Power and Politics. It was unintentionally amusing to see the very polite middle class visitors all wearing headphones while nodding sagely at the spectacle of Salome drenched in blood drooling over the realistic head of John the Baptist on a large screen. Audiences need the correct distance from the stage or platform in order to really get involved.

We all bring our own imagination to what we see and hear. The stage director, conductor and performers shape the production, and it is up to us to use our own imaginations
while seeing it. We don't need a television director and cameraman leading us by the hand and making us watch the details they choose, when we might prefer to direct our attention elsewhere.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I suppose it all depends upon your view of Fantasia.

[Ferretfancy]

I suppose it all depends upon your view of Fantasia.

The efforts of Stokowski and the Disney animators were quite a breakthrough at the time, but they were inventing original imagery to illustrate their ideas about the music. This is surely rather removed from the attempt to show an orchestral performance or an opera from a number of camera positions where the viewer has no choice of what to see from moment to moment.

Fantasia had a number of technical innovations including the first attempt to use stereophonic sound in the cinema, and although it was only partially successful we probably all have favourite moments. Mine is the Dance of the Hours where the ostrich prima ballerina gives us a self satisfied smirk as she soars into the air!

[Serial_Apologist]

Nobody has yet devised a video grammar to be used for classical music, especially for orchestral performances. I worked on quite a few music documentaries where the mixture of interviews, performances and rehearsals did work quite well, but concert hall relays are often disappointing.

Most directors seem to expect the cameramen to follow the top line of the music, cutting to soloists where appropriate, pulling focus through the strings of the harp etc.etc. The problem for the attentive listener is that what goes on underneath the obvious material is what is often structurally of more importance. In opera we are too often made uncomfortably aware of the corny acting acting in close ups when we need a certain distance to properly appreciate the performance.

I went recently to the V& A to see the excellent exhibition Opera, Power and Politics. It was unintentionally amusing to see the very polite middle class visitors all wearing headphones while nodding sagely at the spectacle of Salome drenched in blood drooling over the realistic head of John the Baptist on a large screen. Audiences need the correct distance from the stage or platform in order to really get involved.

We all bring our own imagination to what we see and hear. The stage director, conductor and performers shape the production, and it is up to us to use our own imaginations
while seeing it. We don't need a television director and cameraman leading us by the hand and making us watch the details they choose, when we might prefer to direct our attention elsewhere.

I couldn't agree more with everything you write here, Ferret. I literally can't abide being led by the hand visually to areas of the orchestra or individual players when my ears are telling me I should be looking elsewhere - or, preferably (bing a heads-down eyes-shut kind of llistener) nowhere. I seldom watch TV concert broadcasts, or DVD's of the same for these very reasons.

[Serial_Apologist]

I suppose it all depends upon your view of Fantasia.

The film that put my father off Beetoven 6 for life: "Whenever I hear it I see Babycham adverts!"

[LMcD]

Not being musically trained, I don't always know that to 'look' out for when listening to classical music. Put another way, I don't know what I might be missing (there's usually something, even after repeated hearings). I find videos of chamber music particularly helpful in this respect, allowing me to notice things that I otherwise see only when attending a live concert. The quality of videos can obviously vary, but I think it's usually clear when the director/editor knows his or her stuff and brings to my attention something of which I was previously unaware.
I'm currently working my way through the Beethoven string quartets, played by the Alban Berg Quartet. It could be argued that there's an undue concentration on the leader but, like Manuel, every day I learn.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The film that put my father off Beetoven 6 for life: "Whenever I hear it I see Babycham adverts!"

When I first saw Fantasia, that was my favourite section.

[seabright]

For me, the benefits of classical video is that one can see as well as hear players that one could never have experienced in the flesh. Being able to watch Mr. Jascha Heifetz was, for me, an education in itself. The minimal movement, the unbelievable control and how he managed to produce such a wonderful sound with very fast Bow strokes. Obviously, being able to see Menuhin and Oistrakh in their prime is a real treat.

We are so lucky to be able to see these great artists long after they have passed away and they surely must give inspiration to a younger generation of musicians.

Pastoralguy is quite right about seeing great artists of the past on video. Dave2002 provides a link to a You Tube video and it's only there that one finds some wonderful filmed performances that have been uploaded from the TV but have not been released on commercial DVDs. For example, whether Klemperer's 1970 RFH performance of the Beethoven 7th counts as wonderful is another matter. At 45 minutes and with not a vivace, let alone an allegro, anywhere in sight makes one hesitate to describe it as such. However, the audience goes wild at the end so they must have liked it! Incidentally, Klemperer was a great admirer of Stokowski, whose rehearsal of Leonore No. 3 on You Tube caused someone to comment under the video: "In this ten minutes I learned more about this masterwork than in the 30 years I heard it from several conductors!" On the other hand, Karajan in his rehearsal of the Schumann 4th comes over as a real pain, more in love with the sound of his own voice than with the music he's conducting.

But many if not all the great musicians of the past are immortalised on You Tube in performances you'll never see or hear on TV or Radio 3 where, it seems, old mono recordings are strictly verboten. I was just listening to Richard Tauber singing Tchaikovsky's "At the Ball" quite beautifully and thinking that radio listeners won't hear such superb artistry as that except on You Tube!

[cloughie]

I take the point think classical videos are often spoilt by the whims of the camera operator but at least they mainly concentrate on the music, instruments played and the conductor and soloist. I have never been able to see the point of many pop videos which to my mind have a high percentage of irrelevant footage.

[Dave2002]

I take the point think classical videos are often spoilt by the whims of the camera operator but at least they mainly concentrate on the music, instruments played and the conductor and soloist. I have never been able to see the point of many pop videos which to my mind have a high percentage of irrelevant footage.

That was really my starting point, in particular for the Youtube video I linked to. In fairness it may not always be the camera operator, but rather the video editor - though it depends what strategy has been adopted for recording. Methods have changed over the years.

For live performances which are being recorded and broadcast in real time good professional producers will produce scripts and shot lists before hand, and there will probably be more than one camera, and several cameramen. Youtube videos on the other hand are more likely to be made with less equipment, probably less good/sophisticated equipment, and fewer people, and the results may distract from the music, rather than enhance it - which was my original point. If the post editing is done by someone who follows rules for regular film - I already mentioned a few, then the overall effect can be very disconcerting.

I have tried to make a few videos myself, having been asked to do so, and there are many problems. I used multiple microphones, and also several cameras. On one occasion I also acquired footage from someone else who'd also recorded the concert. The multiple microphones/recorders were simply to obtain the overall best results, and to act as a backup in case any one recorder failed, or ran out of power etc.

Using more cameras does help to get different viewpoints, but makes for a lot more complications in managing during a live performance.

For the most part I found post editing didn't help too much - but I learnt quite a lot about how to do it, and how not to do it. For good quality video (at least HD) it is possible to zoom in slightly, and spotlight a soloist - but there is absolutely no point in this if the camera only has digital zoom - which some cheap microphone/video cams have. I might consider using a 4k camera if ever asked to do this again, as it might then be possible to get acceptable close ups.

I did do a string quartet and I did feel that occasionally spotlighting a player enhanced the overall effect, but for the most part I felt that a minimalist approach worked better than chopping and changing the viewpoint every 4-8 seconds. Film makers don't like that - feeling that there always has to be movement visually.

Re Youtube videos which are worth watching - I found watching Furtwängler's Beethoven 9 in two different videos fascinating. In one there are Nazi regalia and officials, while in the other, done after the war, the non musical elements are somewhat different, though the musical performances are similar.
I think there are many Youtube videos which are worth viewing, but some of the newer ones for up and coming artists exhibit many of the failings re the video editing which I've been trying to point out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2itdv1aEpG4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHDXdbSWu0E

[I thought there were only two Beethoven 9 videos, but now I think there may be more - some during the war and one or two afterwards.]

The music's the thing!

[richardfinegold]

I’ve just decided that given my wife’s allergy to Opera, I am going to purchase videos of the Mozart Da Ponte Operas to try and develop some appreciation for them beyond the greatest hits type of familiarity. There is a clear use for Classical Videos