Conductors who think they know better

[Barbirollians]

Mahler was guilty of course of this sin of reorchestrating the works of other composers. I am more than amazed to find DG and the newly bearded wunderkind Trifonov allowing Pletnev to do this to the Chopin concertos . Anyone heard this record ? Jeremy Nicholas puts the boot in to the concerto recordings whilst admiring much of the solo stuff .

I won't be getting it as much as I have enjoyed his Liszt and Rachmaninov records .

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Handel, arr. Mozart/Beecham
Chopin, arr. Elgar/Douglas/Balakirev
Schubert, arr. Berlioz
Elgar, arr. Jacob
Tchaikovsky, arr. Stravinsky
Pergolesi, arr. Stravinsky
Mozart, arr. Tchaikovsky
Mussorgsky, arr. Ravel/Rimsky-Korsakov/Stokowski +++
Schumann, arr. Mahler
Rameau, etc., arr. Respighi

All good stuff. There's no sin involved.

[Dave2002]

Mahler, arr Schönberg
Brahms, arr Schönberg
J. Strauss,arr Schönberg
Wagner, arr Hindemith

[Alain Maréchal]

J.S.Bach arr.....

there isn't space or time enough to list them all. Also, Bach did it himself.

Wagner, arr Hindemith

Hilariously deranged, in that case.

[pastoralguy]

I am more than amazed to find DG and the newly bearded wunderkind Trifonov allowing Pletnev to do this to the Chopin concertos.

Has he made them more interesting to play? Hopefully, because having played them many times I can testify they are EXTREMELY uninteresting to perform.

[Pabmusic]

There seem to be two different types of example. First, arrangements - which never pretend to be by the original composer. I don't see how these meet the criteria for this thread. Then there are blatant tinkerings with the scoring (Mahler with Schumann, Stokowski adding a gong to The Planets). Now those really do need justification.

[Dave2002]

Has he made them more interesting to play? Hopefully, because having played them many times I can testify they are EXTREMELY uninteresting to perform.

I didn’t think you played the piano?

[ardcarp]

Now those really do need justification.

Yes. But the 'ethics' (for want of a better word) were different at the end of the 19th/early 20th century and I guess tinkering with orchestration was considered OK. Also Kenneth Hamilton's wonderful book After the Golden Age: Romantic Pianism suggests that it was not unusual for the great 19th century masters of the instrument to disregard the urtext and 'tinker' as they went along.

The Chopin concertos were mentioned in the OP. Chopin is 'the pianist's composer' and nothing gives me greater keyboard fulfilment these days than hacking through those of his works which are within my inadequate grasp. BUT, I have always found his orchestration very dull, and heretical though it may be to say so, I don't blame Pletnov for tinkering with it. (I haven't heard the DG recordings.)

[Conchis]

Abbey Road Studios, autumn 1970:

Klemperer: I'm making cuts to the finale (of Bruckner's 8th symphony), because Bruckner clearly over-reached himself here.

Suvi Raj Grubb (astonished): But you can't do that! It'll make the recording uncompetitive!

Klemperer: Then find yourself another conductor, Herr Grubb.

[Barbirollians]

Abbey Road Studios, autumn 1970:

Klemperer: I'm making cuts to the finale (of Bruckner's 8th symphony), because Bruckner clearly over-reached himself here.

Suvi Raj Grubb (astonished): But you can't do that! It'll make the recording uncompetitive!

Klemperer: Then find yourself another conductor, Herr Grubb.

He clearly should have done - who listens to Klemperer's mutilation of the Eighth ?

Jeremy Nicholas's boot is directed more at the tempi than the alterations but Pabs is right quite obviously this thread is not directed at arrangements .

[Conchis]

I suspect Bernstein may count as the biggest serial offender here (especially in later life) but I'll confess to enjoying his massively elongated NYPO Pathetique and (even) his notorious BBCSO Enigma Variations.

[cloughie]

There seem to be two different types of example. First, arrangements - which never pretend to be by the original composer. I don't see how these meet the criteria for this thread. Then there are blatant tinkerings with the scoring (Mahler with Schumann, Stokowski adding a gong to The Planets). Now those really do need justification.

...or Dutoit adding sythesiser to Planets.

[vinteuil]

Then there are blatant tinkerings ...

... yep. All those pianists playing Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin &c on modern Steinways, for starters.


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[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... yep. All those pianists playing Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin &c on modern Steinways, for starters.


.

Yes. Heaven forbid that the music might actually sound better.

[cloughie]

... yep. All those pianists playing Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin &c on modern Steinways, for starters.


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It would be hippocritical for me to comment on that.