Barbirolli: The Final Years

[Conchis]

Although he was still held in huge affection by his orchestras and by audiences, there seems to be a significant body of critical opinion that J.B. declined somewhat in the final five years of his life - that his performances became prone to moments of self-indulgence and that he was remiss in keeping the Hallle horns, in particular, in good order.

Listening to a couple of recordings from the final year of his career: the BBC Legends Viennese Evening with the Halle and the Bruckner 8 with the NPO (his last ever concert?), I have to agree that there is something in these charges, although I still enjoy the performances, especially the Bruckner. Like Klemperer (who was also in his final years during this timeframe), Barbirolli was incapable of turning in an uninteresting performance.

What do others think?

[cloughie]

Although he was still held in huge affection by his orchestras and by audiences, there seems to be a significant body of critical opinion that J.B. declined somewhat in the final five years of his life - that his performances became prone to moments of self-indulgence and that he was remiss in keeping the Hallle horns, in particular, in good order.

Listening to a couple of recordings from the final year of his career: the BBC Legends Viennese Evening with the Halle and the Bruckner 8 with the NPO (his last ever concert?), I have to agree that there is something in these charges, although I still enjoy the performances, especially the Bruckner. Like Klemperer (who was also in his final years during this timeframe), Barbirolli was incapable of turning in an uninteresting performance.

What do others think?

...and then there is the sublime Elgar 1 and Sea Pictures in the King's Lynn live recording which was one of his last concerts and the late studio recordinds of Heldenleben (ok that was LSO) and Appalachia which stand up very well. As to self indulgences I think that there were there throughout his career and that was part of the joy of his recordings. Am I biased? Moi?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I only heard Barbirolli concerts in his final decade. If he was fading, and I don't think he was, then he was still magnificent. As for being self-indulgent, I would argue that he always wanted to make the most of the music, seeing beyond the dots on the page.

[Barbirollians]

I couldn't disagree more and I wonder where this critical opinion referred to is from . Perhaps the egregious Mr Hurwitz and his site of spiteful cloth eared reviews .

At the very end of his career Barbirolli was probably at least until his final illness at the height of his powers as far as record companies were concerned . He had just made his Brahms symphony cycle with the VPO ( not my favourite work of his and the First Symphony ) is too slow and was still recording in that illness ( Delius Appalachia ) and there were significant future plans including Meistersingers no less .

I am not aware of the NPO Bruckner 8 but the Halle one from 20th May 1970 " " a performance not for those who measure out their life in coffee spoons "said R0 in Gramophone ,the May 1970 Stuttgart RSO Mahler 2 ( despite some scrappy playing one of the most thrilling performances I know ) and the Elgar 1 on BBC Legends from days before his death show him at the height of his powers .

Amongst the recordings released from 1965-70

Elgar Cello Concerto and Sea Pictures ( du Pre and Baker)
Schubert 9
The sensational Rome Madama Butterfly
Mahler 6 coupled with one of the greatest recordings ever of Metamorphosen
Some of his Sibelius symphony recordings
The terrific Brahms concertos with the young Barenboim
Dame Janet Baker in Mahler's orchestral songs
The shimmering Debussy recordings with the Orchestra de Paris
Verdi's Otello ( not keen on the Otello ) but such dramatic conducting

It is extraordinary that in the last five years of his life he was able to do so much considering how poor his health was .

He was at the peak of his powers IMO .

[cloughie]

Looks like you're 3-1 down at the moment Conchis!

[Conchis]

I couldn't disagree more and I wonder where this critical opinion referred to is from . Perhaps the egregious Mr Hurwitz and his site of spiteful cloth eared reviews .

At the very end of his career Barbirolli was probably at least until his final illness at the height of his powers as far as record companies were concerned . He had just made his Brahms symphony cycle with the VPO ( not my favourite work of his and the First Symphony ) is too slow and was still recording in that illness ( Delius Appalachia ) and there were significant future plans including Meistersingers no less .

I am not aware of the NPO Bruckner 8 but the Halle one from 20th May 1970 " " a performance not for those who measure out their life in coffee spoons "said R0 in Gramophone ,the May 1970 Stuttgart RSO Mahler 2 ( despite some scrappy playing one of the most thrilling performances I know ) and the Elgar 1 on BBC Legends from days before his death show him at the height of his powers .

Amongst the recordings released from 1965-70

Elgar Cello Concerto and Sea Pictures ( du Pre and Baker)
Schubert 9
The sensational Rome Madama Butterfly
Mahler 6 coupled with one of the greatest recordings ever of Metamorphosen
Some of his Sibelius symphony recordings
The terrific Brahms concertos with the young Barenboim
Dame Janet Baker in Mahler's orchestral songs
The shimmering Debussy recordings with the Orchestra de Paris
Verdi's Otello ( not keen on the Otello ) but such dramatic conducting

It is extraordinary that in the last five years of his life he was able to do so much considering how poor his health was .

He was at the peak of his powers IMO .

I wouldn't say I was necessarily in wholehearted agreement with the assertion (and thanks for correcting me about the Bruckner 8, which was of course the Halle and not the NPO!).

These were the busiest years of JB's life - there was an acceleration in his activities, rather than a slowing down. Work seemed to be plentiful and he seemed very grateful to have it - I once read the suggestion that he was keen to make money at this point in his life, as his earlier career hadn't been that profitable. Unfortunately, his high-earning years coincide with high-taxing years in Britain and Sir John, so it may have been a case of 'make it last'.

I think I recall reading something in the booklet that accompanies the Sibelius symphonies re: self-indulgence. Of course, the fact that he was slowing dying (and unable to pack in his lifelong smoking habit) can't have helped, either.

[Once Was 4]

Although he was still held in huge affection by his orchestras and by audiences, there seems to be a significant body of critical opinion that J.B. declined somewhat in the final five years of his life - that his performances became prone to moments of self-indulgence and that he was remiss in keeping the Hallle horns, in particular, in good order.

Listening to a couple of recordings from the final year of his career: the BBC Legends Viennese Evening with the Halle and the Bruckner 8 with the NPO (his last ever concert?), I have to agree that there is something in these charges, although I still enjoy the performances, especially the Bruckner. Like Klemperer (who was also in his final years during this timeframe), Barbirolli was incapable of turning in an uninteresting performance.

What do others think?

Hmmm!

I did some work playing 4th horn (sorry Conchis!) in the Halle just before Sir John died (in fact I was offered the recording sessions for Appalachia and Brigg Fair - turning them down because I was still technically a student and had a couple of student performances still to do at the Northern School of Music whose Principal, Ida Carroll OBE gave me the bollocking of my life when she found out - "you cannot turn down chances like that! - we would have managed without you!!!!")
It is true that there was one very embarrassing occasion in Mahler 2 when Sir John turned over two pages of the score and got lost - throwing the orchestra into confusion which is rare for any professional orchestra; professional orchestral players are past masters at covering up blunders by conductors who then go on to get all the credit.
But ALL Sir John's performances were occasions. Once, a year or so later, I got into trouble with the 1st horn of one of the regional orchestras for "trying too hard every show" I never quite worked out what he meant until much later: if Sir John had eased off a bit he may have lived a bit longer.
I heard that last broadcast of Elgar 1 and was very moved - most people in Manchester knew that this was the end.

[pastoralguy]

An old fiddle player in the Halle once told me that, on occasion (i.e. If he had had a larger measure than usual of Scotch during the interval), then Elgar 2 could be stretched out to almost 70 minutes!

[Barbirollians]

I understood that story to be apocryphal- I am sure Michael Kennedy said it was bit shorter than that - albeit not by much ...

His lifestyle was terrible by all accounts for his health - about four hours sleep and one meal a day at midnight with the occasional sandwich and lots of coffee in the day , a workaholic who ignored doctor's advice to rest , a heavy smoker with a serious heart condition and quite a bit of whisky .

If he had given up smoking and had a few more years as a result I imagine he would have made some more great recordings .

[Nimrod]

Although he was still held in huge affection by his orchestras and by audiences, there seems to be a significant body of critical opinion that J.B. declined somewhat in the final five years of his life - that his performances became prone to moments of self-indulgence and that he was remiss in keeping the Hallle horns, in particular, in good order.

Listening to a couple of recordings from the final year of his career: the BBC Legends Viennese Evening with the Halle and the Bruckner 8 with the NPO (his last ever concert?), I have to agree that there is something in these charges, although I still enjoy the performances, especially the Bruckner. Like Klemperer (who was also in his final years during this timeframe), Barbirolli was incapable of turning in an uninteresting performance.

What do others think?

Well, Conchis, You raise an interesting point of view, albeit in my opinion, somewhat misguided. In his final years, before his workacholic attitude to making music overtook him, JB was in another phase of his music making that yielded wonderful results reflecting what he had achieved in years previously. I heard him conduct Bruckner 8th three times in concert including the RFH concert and what, in 2017, one needs to bear in mind is that orchestra standards in provincial orchestras like the Halle were not expected to the high standard of today; but, as JB once said, if he thought the players were giving their all he'd forgive the occasional slipped note. One has to remember that London orchestra were forever poaching Halle players because, under JB they were so good. If one puts aside occasional players' slipped notes one hears what wonderful interpretations JB had given audiences in this country for over a quarter of a century. This very evening I've listened to his 1957 performance of Enigma Variations which, to my mind, is THE benchmark performance of this work. If you are fortunate enough to hear live performances from his last few years, as I am, you would hear music making that was alert, vibrant and wholly rythmical and certainly not self-indulgent. So often he knew how to lift the notes from the score that to this day others fail to do. I was at that Bruckner 8th in the Legends performance and the last Elgar 1st from Kings Lynn and they were awesome interpretations, not in the least self indulgent. Yes, JB in the recording studio, was on occasion at a tempo slower than in the concert hall. You are correct in your statement that 'he could not turn in an uninteresting performance'. 47 years have passed since his death and a lot has changed regarding the listeners expectations of performers, players and conductors. But in the context of the time he was on the podium JB was undoubtedly the greatest English conductor of a generation and since his arrival here in 1943 he inspired (and introduced)audiences throughout the UK to music they'd never heard before and lived to enjoy thereafter.

[Nimrod]

I wouldn't say I was necessarily in wholehearted agreement with the assertion (and thanks for correcting me about the Bruckner 8, which was of course the Halle and not the NPO!).

These were the busiest years of JB's life - there was an acceleration in his activities, rather than a slowing down. Work seemed to be plentiful and he seemed very grateful to have it - I once read the suggestion that he was keen to make money at this point in his life, as his earlier career hadn't been that profitable. Unfortunately, his high-earning years coincide with high-taxing years in Britain and Sir John, so it may have been a case of 'make it last'.

I think I recall reading something in the booklet that accompanies the Sibelius symphonies re: self-indulgence. Of course, the fact that he was slowing dying (and unable to pack in his lifelong smoking habit) can't have helped, either.

Sorry, Conchis, the idea that money making was a driver in JB's life in the 60's I have to refute most emphatically! I've never heard that before and I suspect you read a suggestion, rather than fact!

[Nimrod]

I understood that story to be apocryphal- I am sure Michael Kennedy said it was bit shorter than that - albeit not by much ...

His lifestyle was terrible by all accounts for his health - about four hours sleep and one meal a day at midnight with the occasional sandwich and lots of coffee in the day , a workaholic who ignored doctor's advice to rest , a heavy smoker with a serious heart condition and quite a bit of whisky .

If he had given up smoking and had a few more years as a result I imagine he would have made some more great recordings .

Hi Barbirollians, I do so hope you don't sign up to the idea that JB 'drank quite a bit of whisky' . I have known Halle players and admirers in my life and not one of them said he drank whisky 'heavily' . This, I earnestly believe, is an old wives tale put about by detractors, probably London based critics who resented his success at home and abroad.

[johnb]

Hi Barbirollians, I do so hope you don't sign up to the idea that JB 'drank quite a bit of whisky' . I have known Halle players and admirers in my life and not one of them said he drank whisky 'heavily' . This, I earnestly believe, is an old wives tale put about by detractors, probably London based critics who resented his success at home and abroad.

It might be an old wives tale but it is one that I heard back in the mid 60s when I was in Manchester - though that might also have been unfounded. However, many years ago I remember listening to a R3 afternoon programme devoted to Barbirolli in which Heather Harper was being interviewed about JB and the BBC SO tour of the eastern block in 1967 (?). This was the tour during which the Mahler 4 (with Heather Harper) and the Elgar Cello Concerto with du Pre were recorded.

Anyway, Heather Harper said that she associated more with Boulez (who was also on the tour) than JB but that Barbirolli asked the band members to bring bottles of scotch with them. She was asked whether she took a bottle too and she said she did.

[Warlock]

I can well imagine Barbirolli SUGGESTING to members of the BBCSO that they took bottles of whisky to Russia. At that time it would not have been easily available there and a bottle of scotch would have been a welcome "sweetener" for a Soviet official.

[Barbirollians]

Hi Barbirollians, I do so hope you don't sign up to the idea that JB 'drank quite a bit of whisky' . I have known Halle players and admirers in my life and not one of them said he drank whisky 'heavily' . This, I earnestly believe, is an old wives tale put about by detractors, probably London based critics who resented his success at home and abroad.

I don't buy the idea he was a drunk but he did drink whisky - he can be seen with a glass in the Monitor documentary at one point .

I think it is well documented that Kenneth Crickmore did steal a great deal of money from the Barbirolli's - eventually his widow had to settle proceedings and make a payment to them but it did not cover all he had stolen by a long chalk . Thus Michael Kennedy in his biography does say that Barbirolli did have to work to ensure financial security - I have no doubt , however, that the reason he worked so much even at the end of his life was because he loved conducting and music so much .