What makes cinema organs sound different?

[Dave2002]

Just happened to flip over to R2 right now while channel surfing. There's a programme called the Organist Entertains.

What is about cinema and popular organs which makes them sound so different from church organs? We know that church organs in different countries do sound different, but most of them sound very different from anything used for popular music. Surely it can't just be that some might be electronic, as cinema organs have been around for many years.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Probably this, Dave:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_speaker

[MickyD]

Good heavens, I can't believe this programme is still on! My father used to listen to it in the 70s.

[cloughie]

Good heavens, I can't believe this programme is still on! My father used to listen to it in the 70s.

Banished to the margins so that fewer people hear it - It is now is on at such a late hour, along with Listen to the Band (and Sunday Half Hour now at an early time for the same reason). All in helping the ageing DJs from Radio 1 to give them the mid evening slots. The real Radio 2 is no longer important it seems.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Good heavens, I can't believe this programme is still on! My father used to listen to it in the 70s.

Been running since April, 1969 - a half-hour programme chiefly presented by Nigel Ogden. Possibly the last remaining of the Sing Something Simple/Melodies for You-type programmes? The very word "Wurlitzer" reminds me of The Goons (The Mighty Wurlitzer, in which Neddie Seagoon drove such an instrument across the Sahara Desert), and, of course, the old "Knock-Knock" Elvis joke.

[Bryn]

Been running since April, 1969 - a half-hour programme chiefly presented by Nigel Ogden. Possibly the last remaining of the Sing Something Simple/Melodies for You-type programmes? The very word "Wurlitzer" reminds me of The Goons (The Mighty Wurlitzer, in which Neddie Seagoon drove such an instrument across the Sahara Desert), and, of course, the old "Knock-Knock" Elvis joke.

No blue jokes here please.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The real Radio 2 is no longer important it seems.

Some of it has been passed to Radio 3

[Richard Barrett]

Churches inevitably have extremely resonant acoustics, concert halls have shorter reverb times but are in general still pretty resonant, while cinemas are made to have quite dry acoustics for obvious reasons, with their carpets and soft chairs etc., and this will make a massive difference to how an organ sounds.

[vinteuil]

J

What is about cinema and popular organs which makes them sound so different from church organs? We know that church organs in different countries do sound different, but most of them sound very different from anything used for popular music. Surely it can't just be that some might be electronic, as cinema organs have been around for many years.

.... some answers here :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatre_organ

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hope-Jones

.

[cloughie]

Some of it has been passed to Radio 3

I think it has just disappeared. What has come on to R3? If you analyse it none is on R3. What is on R3 is CFM without ads!

[Hornspieler]

We used to be entertained on the then BBC Home Service by Sandy McPherson and the four Reginalds:
Reginald New*
Reginad Forte
Reginald Dixon and
Reginald Porter-Brown

*I remember that it was when I was living in Beckenham, that Edmund Hilary and Sherpa Tensing were announced as the first to conquer Mt Everest, so I dropped in to our local Regal Cinema to watch one of the newsreels (Pathe?that used separate the two films on a double bill.

Imagine my surprise and delight when up came the mighty Whirlitzer - played by Reginald New!

I had no idea that he was our resident organist.

HS

[Ferretfancy]

We used to be entertained on the then BBC Home Service by Sandy McPherson and the four Reginalds:
Reginald New*
Reginad Forte
Reginald Dixon and
Reginald Porter-Brown

*I remember that it was when I was living in Beckenham, that Edmund Hilary and Sherpa Tensing were announced as the first to conquer Mt Everest, so I dropped in to our local Regal Cinema to watch one of the newsreels (Pathe?that used separate the two films on a double bill.

Imagine my surprise and delight when up came the mighty Whirlitzer - played by Reginald New!

I had no idea that he was our resident organist.

HS

When I first worked in radio back in the late fifties, I was quite often sent to the Jubilee Chapel in Hoxton, home of the BBC Theatre Organ with Sandy McPherson in residence.

This was a converted baptist chapel, and the organ was a Muller which had originally toured the country with Reginald Forte. Sandy had a tiny office in the basement, wallpapered with dozens of old theatre bills. During the war there was a shortage of popular music in the day time, so he was on air every day at some time, often more than once.

The place was staffed by a small team of older chaps who looked after the instrument. One wall had all the pipes, and there was a large sofa. If you sat there during a broadcast you were gently bumped up and down.At the rear of the console was a bank of U links which could be switched around to vary the sound. Every theatre organist had his own preferred combination, Sandy had a sound which could charitably be called mellow, but the Muller had all the bells and whistles if the organist so chose

Across the road from the Jubilee was a small pub called the Sturt Arms. The boys had the pub keys, and could let themselves in at any time, pull a pint and leave the cash on the bar. This usually went with sausages cooked on a single gas ring next to the organ pipes.

I enjoyed myself at the Jubilee Chapel. You could play with the microphones while Sandy was rehearsing, and once a week you could do a simple but nonetheless live broadcast of The Chapel in the Valley complete with a disc of birdsong. One early soloist in the show was John Shirley-Quirk.Sadly the site of these 'historic' broadcasts is now a multi storey car park, and the pub is an Asian corner shop open all hours.

[pastoralguy]

When I first worked in radio back in the late fifties, I was quite often sent to the Jubilee Chapel in Hoxton, home of the BBC Theatre Organ with Sandy McPherson in residence.

This was a converted baptist chapel, and the organ was a Muller which had originally toured the country with Reginald Forte. Sandy had a tiny office in the basement, wallpapered with dozens of old theatre bills. During the war there was a shortage of popular music in the day time, so he was on air every day at some time, often more than once.

The place was staffed by a small team of older chaps who looked after the instrument. One wall had all the pipes, and there was a large sofa. If you sat there during a broadcast you were gently bumped up and down.At the rear of the console was a bank of U links which could be switched around to vary the sound. Every theatre organist had his own preferred combination, Sandy had a sound which could charitably be called mellow, but the Muller had all the bells and whistles if the organist so chose

Across the road from the Jubilee was a small pub called the Sturt Arms. The boys had the pub keys, and could let themselves in at any time, pull a pint and leave the cash on the bar. This usually went with sausages cooked on a single gas ring next to the organ pipes.

I enjoyed myself at the Jubilee Chapel. You could play with the microphones while Sandy was rehearsing, and once a week you could do a simple but nonetheless live broadcast of The Chapel in the Valley complete with a disc of birdsong. One early soloist in the show was John Shirley-Quirk.Sadly the site of these 'historic' broadcasts is now a multi storey car park, and the pub is an Asian corner shop open all hours.

Great story, ff. Thanks.

[ardcarp]

Indeed Happier more easy-going days, eh?


Going back to Dave's OP and assuming we are talking of trad pipe organs (so nothing to do with the Leslie speaker..sorry Ferney!) then the answers are in the helpful links supplied by Vinteuil in #9

These can be summarised by:

1. Higher wind pressures
2. Almost continuous use of tremulant, adjusted to give a wider, faster wobble than in a church organ (where it is sparingly used anyway)
3. Invention of a new sort of pipe, the Tibia, made to collossal scale (e.g.. wide for its length)
4. Reed stops made to imitate orchestral instruments (more so than in church organs)

Then of course there's the kitchen department, including, often, special effects such as thunder or pistol shot. One thaetre organ (I can't remember where) even had a grand piano whose keys were operated remotely from the organ console.

Finally there's the Diaphone invented by Robert Hope Jones. I can never remember whether it was an organ stop cribbed from a fog-horn or the other way round. You can probably guess what it sounds like!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Assuming we are talking of trad pipe organs (so nothing to do with the Leslie speaker..sorry Ferney!)

Oh! I didn't know that there were Cinema pipe organs - all the ones I've encountered (admittedly not exactly numerous, and not recently) have been Wurlitzers or Hammonds. Quite right - I don't think Leslies work with non-electric instruments?