Piano Quintets

[ahinton]

We are told that Robert Schumann invented the piano 5tet but shouldn't the credit go much further back, to a certain W A Mozart? At least three of his piano concertos exist in his own versions with accompaniment from string quartet, as here:


If something looks like a piano quintet and sounds like a piano quintet, isn't it a piano quintet??

True, of course, but the difference here is arguably that Schumann's excellent work was initially intended to be a piano quintet whereas those Mozart Concertos were arranged by their composer for piano quintet, so the claim for RS as the instigator of that medium is not without some truth, methinks...

[vinteuil]

True, of course, but the difference here is arguably that Schumann's excellent work was initially intended to be a piano quintet whereas those Mozart Concertos were arranged by their composer for piano quintet, so the claim for RS as the instigator of that medium is not without some truth, methinks...

... I refer mlearnedfriend to #27 supra -

...
And what about the Boccherini piano quintets [ "per forte-piano, 2 violini, viola, e violoncello" ] op 56 and op 57 of 1797 and 1798/99 -

http://amzn.eu/dtSc3yl

.

[cloughie]

True, of course, but the difference here is arguably that Schumann's excellent work was initially intended to be a piano quintet whereas those Mozart Concertos were arranged by their composer for piano quintet, so the claim for RS as the instigator of that medium is not without some truth, methinks...

Not if Mozart did the arrangement before the Schumann Quintet. He may have heard the Mozart and thought that's a good idea!

[ahinton]

... I refer mlearnedfriend to #27 supra -

Quite - and I'm aware of those - but it might be argued that Schumann's work nevertheless put that medium on the musical map in the way that no composer before him had done.

[ahinton]

Not if Mozart did the arrangement before the Schumann Quintet. He may have heard the Mozart and thought that's a good idea!

My point was that Mozart's work on these were arrangements of his concertos whereas Schumann's Piano Quintet was written as a piano quintet.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Quite - and I'm aware of those - but it might be argued that Schumann's work nevertheless put that medium on the musical map in the way that no composer before him had done.

Well, yes - but Boccherini was using a different "map" from the Romantics' idea of "The Canon".

[cloughie]

My point was that Mozart's work on these were arrangements of his concertos whereas Schumann's Piano Quintet was written as a piano quintet.

There were many pian quitntets around with different instrumentation eg Mozart K452 and Beethoven Op16 - it hardly took a genius to put a piano and a string quartet together!

[ahinton]

Well, yes - but Boccherini was using a different "map" from the Romantics' idea of "The Canon".

Fair comment.

[Oldcrofter]

Here in the Cotswolds, we'll be able to hear the Schubert Ensemble performing Judith Wear's new piano quintet three days after its Wigmore Hall premiere.

https://painswickmusicsoc.co.uk/programme/

Plus The Trout - looking forward to it - plus, of course, all the other concerts in the series, including our local mezzo, Dame Sarah Connolly with the first performance of a Song Cycle by Sally Beamish set to poetry by local poet Laurie Lee. (Song cycle commissioned by Painswick Music Soc.)

[BBMmk2]

Surely you also have at least one of the Richter/Borodins recordings?

Sadly not. My collection needs to be enhanced by on of these. Which ones do you recommend?

[jayne lee wilson]

I spent most of last autumn revelling in Romantic Chamber Music, and never found a better Schumann Quintet than this one -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/meine-Clara-Scienza-Lorenzo-Ghielmi/dp/B000A3VTRA/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1515980844&sr=1-5&keywords=schumann+winter+%26+winter

If you buy the CD, beware Used Conditions, as the lovely matt yellow corrugated card case may suffer rough handling less well & mark easily....

This was on the same high level (if a touch less impassioned/imaginative than the Gaia Scienza), and does include the Piano Quartet too...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schumann-Piano-Quintet-Op-Quartet/dp/B00009AQMB/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1515981120&sr=1-1&keywords=schumann+quintet+chandos

Both of these are period-instrument recordings of course, and benefit hugely from their agility, and colourful, mellow sonorities...
(and both available to stream via Qobuz).

[MickyD]

Thank you, Jayne, I didn't know about these two discs.

[gurnemanz]

Also interested in that La Gaia Scienza Schumann Quintet disc, Jayne ... and the op 56 coupling. I only know the two-hand version of that work. I have loved the quintet for many years and apropos of Schumann on four hands I recently acquired a recording of Clara's piano duet version of the Quintet on a fine disc from OEMS. A fascinating way of hearing the work anew.

[BBMmk2]

Thank you, Jayne, I didn't know about these two discs.

I might find a conventional recording!

[HighlandDougie]

I spent most of last autumn revelling in Romantic Chamber Music, and never found a better Schumann Quintet than this one -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/meine-Clara-Scienza-Lorenzo-Ghielmi/dp/B000A3VTRA/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1515980844&sr=1-5&keywords=schumann+winter+%26+winter

Great recommendation, Jayne. Cheap (but new) copy arrived earlier. The Piano Quintet is indeed impassioned - and even more exhilarating than Martha Argerich. A joy!