Arts Council Announcement today

[MrGongGong]

For those interested in these things

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2017/jun/27/arts-council-england-to-spend-170m-more-outside-london-plymouth-tees-valley-bradford

will take a bit of time to unpick
but on first glance the move away from London is to be welcomed IMV

[vinteuil]

.

... more details, I think, here -

http://www.artscouncil.org.uk/NPO

[MrGongGong]

Yes
You can get all the data as a spreadsheet if that's your thing

[vinteuil]

Yes
You can get all the data as a spreadsheet if that's your thing

... o, it's always interesting to see the triumphs and disasters of one's friends and rivals


.

[Dave2002]

I think it is very much about time that some major activities were moved well away from the London area.

I haven't looked at the latest information, but although I am very much in favour of Glyndebourne and the Glyndebourne Tour, it really is about time that locations north of Birmingham were noticed. When I last looked the Glyndebourne Tour went as far north as Woking and Milton Keynes, though I have recollections that in former times it may have gone much further north, perhaps to Norwich and/or Liverpool. Not sure that it ever gets anywhere even near Scotland (e.g. Newcastle).

I realise that it's perhaps slightly unfair to single out just one company, and indeed one which I hear is financially viable and perhaps doesn't even feature on the Arts Council lists, but I do think the northern cities and regions are too often shut out, which reduces the incentives for those who might otherwise wish to relocate there to actually go ahead with the move. I also include the areas to the west in these comments.

Although Dr Johnson said "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life", that does not mean that everything in the UK has to be managed to suit London and the south east - and in any case Dr J's influence should surely have long passed. It is not incompatible for London to be an attraction, but not to the detriment of other parts of the UK.

[Alain Maréchal]

I do not see why you cannot spend the money on those places as well as London, which tourists are more likely to visit. I correct myself - I can see why - its because you don't like spending money on anything in that tight little island.

Since you do not ask, yes I have visited some areas outside London. Dismal, generally, unlike, for example, the great provincial centres of Lyon, Nantes, and Toulouse, all capable (and achieving) cultural excellence that rival Paris. The effect of history - France was not unified until the 18th Century so the regional centres developed separately* (and the Monarchy, historically, did not like Paris nor especially Parisians), whereas England has always been one nation state, with the centre on the banks of the Thames.

*even quiet little Moulins had a ducal house (Bourbon) who worked their way to the throne.

[Serial_Apologist]

I do not see why you cannot spend the money on those places as well as London, which tourists are more likely to visit. I correct myself - I can see why - its because you don't like spending money on anything in that tight little island.

[Alain Maréchal]

When I worked, on secondment from my French employer, to the NHS, I was asked why my department's budget was so high (it is true we did not see patients, but I think our service was valuable.) The usual gripe was "we could open xxx beds and do xxx hips replacement for that money!". My standard reply was "no doubt, but you wouldn't, would you?"

[teamsaint]

I do not see why you cannot spend the money on those places as well as London, which tourists are more likely to visit. I correct myself - I can see why - its because you don't like spending money on anything in that tight little island.

Since you do not ask, yes I have visited some areas outside London. Dismal, generally, unlike, for example, the great provincial centres of Lyon, Nantes, and Toulouse, all capable (and achieving) cultural excellence that rival Paris. The effect of history - France was not unified until the 18th Century so the regional centres developed separately* (and the Monarchy, historically, did not like Paris nor especially Parisians), whereas England has always been one nation state, with the centre on the banks of the Thames.

*even quiet little Moulins had a ducal house (Bourbon) who worked their way to the throne.

Although of course the actual statistics don't really bear out this.

https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/government-spending-to-gdp

UK government spending for the UK as % of GDP is just behind the Netherlands and Germany, and in all honesty, I'd rather not live in a country in which the government spends 56% of GDP, in the case of France, as in the UK, much of it on weapons.

( Edit ;Unless it is a radically different type of government that spends the money in very different ways from the current European model).

[Cockney Sparrow]

I do not see why you cannot spend the money on those places as well as London, which tourists are more likely to visit. I correct myself - I can see why - its because you don't like spending money on anything in that tight little island.

Since you do not ask, yes I have visited some areas outside London. Dismal, generally, unlike, for example, the great provincial centres of Lyon, Nantes, and Toulouse, all capable (and achieving) cultural excellence that rival Paris.

+1. (Also, just to note, its Arts Council England. Wales, Scotland, N Ireland - presumably look to your devolved governments).

[pastoralguy]

I think it is very much about time that some major activities were moved well away from the London area.

I haven't looked at the latest information, but although I am very much in favour of Glyndebourne and the Glyndebourne Tour, it really is about time that locations north of Birmingham were noticed. When I last looked the Glyndebourne Tour went as far north as Woking and Milton Keynes, though I have recollections that in former times it may have gone much further north, perhaps to Norwich and/or Liverpool. Not sure that it ever gets anywhere even near Scotland (e.g. Newcastle).
.

Actually, Glyndebourne Touring Opera visited Edinburgh about 10 years ago and did 'Marriage of Figaro' and superb it was too. Alas, afaik, they've not returned.

[Alain Maréchal]

UK government spending for the UK as % of GDP is just behind the Netherlands and Germany, and in all honesty, I'd rather not live in a country in which the government spends 56% of GDP, in the case of France, as in the UK, much of it on weapons.

The problem, I would suggest, is not the % of GDP, but the quantum of GDP. Get out there and spend, so your taxes can be used. I am happy to pay tax at the levels imposed in France because I see it spent, for example, on tickets for students at ONLyon which cost 4 Euros. I'm also happy to be defended.

An analogy: I frequently found in the UK complaints at the cost of certain under-performing civil servants. The reaction in France is the opposite, where they ask if they are paying enough to get the appropriate calibre of official.

[Pulcinella]

Since you do not ask, yes I have visited some areas outside London. Dismal, generally, unlike, for example, the great provincial centres of Lyon, Nantes, and Toulouse, all capable (and achieving) cultural excellence that rival Paris.

Ouch!
Dismal, perhaps (it's certainly been grey and raining most of the day here in York, today), but from reading postings on this forum, Alain, you must be aware of the fact that there is much cultural excellence outside London: the concert I'm singing in here in York on Saturday night, for instance! ()

With the Bournemouth, Birmingham, Liverpool, and Manchester orchestras for starters, and ferney's beloved Opera North (which I've just booked to see in October), we provincial chaps can rightly quite often feel superior to the poor folk in the smoke of the capital.

[teamsaint]

The problem, I would suggest, is not the % of GDP, but the quantum of GDP. Get out there and spend, so your taxes can be used. I am happy to pay tax at the levels imposed in France because I see it spent, for example, on tickets for students at ONLyon which cost 4 Euros. I'm also happy to be defended.

An analogy: I frequently found in the UK complaints at the cost of certain under-performing civil servants. The reaction in France is the opposite, where they ask if they are paying enough to get the appropriate calibre of official.

Thing is, the UK and French economies are broadly the same, both in total GDP, and income per capita.

And we do get out there and spend, we're the consumption champions of Europe.

our savings ratio, and that of France, are shown in this report. UK 3%, France 13.4% for Q4 2016. Wow.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/personal-savings

So, not a " tight little island " at all, really.
In fact, broadly where many other European countries are on tax and spend, and spending what we do have as fast as we get it.
For better or worse.

oh yes, and tight little UK spent 0.7% of GDP on foreign aid in 2015, double the level of , well, some other European countries....

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/sep/09/foreign-aid-which-countries-are-the-most-generous

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_country_donors

Not all is rosy in the garden here in the UK, but a fair appraisal, and credit for the things we do well isn't unreasonable to ask for.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And the annual Huddersfield Festival of Contemporary Music, of course - the York Early Music Festival - the West Yorkshire Playhouse - Bolton Octagon - Sage Gateshead - Manchester Exchange Theatre - Northern Sinfonia - Northern Chamber Orchestra - Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra.

Are "the great provincial centres of Lyons, Nantes, and Toulouse" able to produce Symphony Orchestras with the distinguished discography of the Hallé, the CBSO, or even the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra I wonder?