Liszt Piano Concertos

[ahinton]

Afraid I have to agree. I have the Brendel/LPO/Haitink recordings if I want to give them an airing. Mind, Mahler made good use of a motive (one can hardly call it a theme) from the First Piano Concerto in his 6th Symphony

Ah yes, indeed he did! But let's not forget that even Boulez conducted both Liszt piano concertos with Barenboim as soloist...

[Pianorak]

. . . most of what I've heard strikes me as being a bit gloomy.

La Lugubre Gondola I and II are indeed a bit gloomy.

I love the major part of Liszt's solo piano works which I find far from gloomy. Incl. the Années de Pèlerinage,
Hungarian Rhapsodies, Transcendental Studies, the B Minor Sonata, his opera transcriptions, the Beethoven symphony transcriptions etc.

[Richard Tarleton]

I was still editing my #14 when Pet was posting his #15. I'd venture to suggest that if one's interest is primarily in orchestral music, one is unlikely to appreciate Liszt's original genius. I find these dismissive comments, damning with faint praise, etc., wide of the mark. Short of bumping the post I repeat - his greatest works are for solo piano - that's it.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I was still editing my #14 when Pet was posting his #15. I'd venture to suggest that if one's interest is primarily in orchestral music, one is unlikely to appreciate Liszt's original genius. I find these dismissive comments, damning with faint praise, etc., wide of the mark. Short of bumping the post I repeat - his greatest works are for solo piano - that's it.

Well - not for this Lisztophobe and ex-Trianglist: the Faust Symphony is one of the very few of his compositions that I can wholeheartedly enthuse about. (Admitedly, the others in that "very few" are for solo Piano.)

I have fond memories of the very first concert I ever attended in Leeds Town Hall, which included the Second Concerto (Malcuzynski/SNO/Gibson) - but the context of those memories (I was 16, at a weekend residential course, surrounded by dozens of other Musicians of my age for the first time in my life, and experiencing my first taste of what life might be like in a university; a heady mixture) remains higher in my affections than the work itself.

[Bryn]

I was still editing my #14 when Pet was posting his #15. I'd venture to suggest that if one's interest is primarily in orchestral music, one is unlikely to appreciate Liszt's original genius. I find these dismissive comments, damning with faint praise, etc., wide of the mark. Short of bumping the post I repeat - his greatest works are for solo piano - that's it.

Well, yes, but would you choose the piano 2 or 4 hands versions of his Via Crucis over the organ and vocal original?

[Richard Tarleton]

Well, yes, but would you choose the piano 2 or 4 hands versions of his Via Crucis over the organ and vocal original?

I know the solo piano version (disc 18 in the Leslie Howard complete Liszt piano works)- I haven't heard the original, I confess - still finding my way through Liszt's choral music, to which I've come late. I was responding to the above.

"I have participated in this holy ceremony, notably at the Colosseum in Rome, steeped in the blood if the holy martyrs. In the pages of music which follow I have attempted humbly to express my devout emotion.
O crux, ave, spes unica!"

Brendel (his RFH recitals in the 1970s, and his recordings), and the recordings of Bolet, Arrau, Barenboim, Argerich (the Sonata), Lewis (who played some memorable Liszt the first time I saw him) and Osborne have been my principal guides. Most recently, a complete live A. de Pelerinage 2 by Peter Donohoe.....

[LeMartinPecheur]

I don't think these concertos are very good and I'm surprised that major pianists waste their time on them.


Any dissenting opinions?

#1 has some of the finest triangle solos in the repertoire

It lives in LMP family legend because daughter #1 at a very early age would ask for a record featuring particular instruments. One night she wanted piano and drum. Failing to think of (e.g.) the Bartok Sonata for 2 pianos & percussion I offered Liszt 1 as featuring piano & triangle.

When we got to the first subject I told her the story of Liszt singing to it the words "Das versteht ihr alle nicht (None of you understand this)." She nodded and said "Because none of them understood German."

I've posted this before but hope it stands repetition.

[Jonathan]

I like both works - the end of the first, particularly can be extremely thrilling. The second is a deeper work, much more heartfelt and very cleverly constructed. As for "gloomy music", some (but not all) of the post 1870s works could be described as gloomy but I tend to think of them as experimental, pushing the boundries of harmony etc. rather than anything else. The so called 3rd concerto (also in E flat) is also worth a listen - it's been recorded several times and uses themes from Liszt's Allegro and Rondo di Bravoure as a starting point for a seperate work. The other piano and orchestral works are good as well - the Hungarian Fantasy has already beem mentioned but I really do like the orchestration of the Schubert Wanderer Fantasy as well as De Profundis (Stephen Mayer on a very old and deleted ASV disc is excellent in this) and of course Totentanz (in either of the two versions).

[Conchis]

I remember being very interested to read about the circumstances of Liszt's death a few years ago. He died at Bayreuth, which at that time was run (with an iron-hand) by his eldest daughter. There is speculation that his life might have been saved had said daughter allowed medical assistance to be called; but she didn't, and he died. Punishment for being such a 'bad' father?

[Jonathan]

Perhaps in the context of how parents are supposed to behave these days yes, he would be a 'bad' father but think of the aristocracy sending their children off to prep school for years and then only really letting them back into the family when they were grown up in the UK. I'm sure this was similar on the continent as well. Liszt certainly didn't see Cosima (or Daniel and Blandine) for some years while they were children but he was busy concertising and travelling. He left the 3 children in the company of his mother (Anna) who was by all accounts a very good guardian for them. Also, Cosima was still deeply in mourning for Richard Wagner (who died 3 years earlier) and seems disinterested or perhaps distracted with regard to her own fathers ailing health. I think "iron hand" is probably a good description of her - she certainly sounds like an unpleasant character from what I've read.

[Richard Tarleton]

I remember being very interested to read about the circumstances of Liszt's death a few years ago. He died at Bayreuth, which at that time was run (with an iron-hand) by his eldest daughter. There is speculation that his life might have been saved had said daughter allowed medical assistance to be called; but she didn't, and he died. Punishment for being such a 'bad' father?

The penultimate chapter of volume 3 of Alan Walker's magisterial biography of Liszt deals with his final days in detail, so best to read that.

Liszt was already very ill when he arrived in Bayreuth on 21 July 1886. Cosima was in the throes of managng the Bayreuth Festival, but had meals prepared for him (which nobody seemed to understand he couldn't eat, as he couldn't chew) sent over to his rented rooms , and visited him several times a day. It was a very busy time - Sunday July 25 saw the Bayreuth premiere of Tristan, which Liszt attended although he was very ill, and led the applause. He suffered greatly in his final days, but given his condition and the circumstances I'm not sure what Cosima could have done to affect the outcome. He was a good age (76) and has a number of medical conditions. She sent for Dr Fleischer on Saturday July 31, so that charge is untrue. He arrived in Bayreuth that afternoon, Liszt died that night.

[Conchis]

The penultimate chapter of volume 3 of Alan Walker's magisterial biography of Liszt deals with his final days in detail, so best to read that.

Liszt was already very ill when he arrived in Bayreuth on 21 July 1886. Cosima was in the throes of managng the Bayreuth Festival, but had meals prepared for him (which nobody seemed to understand he couldn't eat, as he couldn't chew) sent over to his rented rooms , and visited him several times a day. It was a very busy time - Sunday July 25 saw the Bayreuth premiere of Tristan, which Liszt attended although he was very ill, and led the applause. He suffered greatly in his final days, but given his condition and the circumstances I'm not sure what Cosima could have done to affect the outcome. He was a good age (76) and has a number of medical conditions. She sent for Dr Fleischer on Saturday July 31, so that charge is untrue. He arrived in Bayreuth that afternoon, Liszt died that night.

My source is this excellent C.W. biography, which was published reasonably recently:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Cosima-Wagner-Lady-Bayreuth-Oliver-Hilmes/0300170904/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497363322&sr=8-1&keywords=cosima+wagner

[Barbirollians]

One of the few commercial Klemperer recordings I haven't heard.

Can't imagine O.K. was much of a fan of the piece.

EG raved about it in Gramophone when it first came out .

[Barbirollians]

I've always liked the Hungarian Fantasia, a very lively work for P&O.

Solomon ! Now there is a serious musician who sets light to the HF .

[rauschwerk]

Solomon ! Now there is a serious musician who sets light to the HF .

Indeed! When Horowitz dismissed Solomon's playing as boring, he can't possibly have heard that electrifying account.