Klemperer the Sceptic.

[Conchis]

Reading Richard Osborne's excellent liner notes for the Klemperer box sets, it's clear that O.K. had unequivocal appreciation for very few composers, Mozart and Bach being his most esteemed.

Although an associate of Mahler, he was far from convinced by all of G.M.'s symphonies and this reflected in his discography. Recording Walkure Act 1 in the autumn of 1969, he remarked to Gramophone that returning to the piece was 'like meeting up with a woman you were madly in love with years before.....and finding she's just the same.' He famously slashed several bars from Bruckner's 8th symphony (to the astonishment of Suvi Raj Grub) because he felt that Bruckner had 'overreached himself.'

Personally, I think this unsentimental detachment is part of what Klemperer such a great conductor: he wasn't in awe of (most of) the music he performed.

[Richard Barrett]

he wasn't in awe of (most of) the music he performed

Although there is a difference between not being in awe of music (are you sure other conductors were or are in awe of the music they conduct?) and chopping out the bits you don't like!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Although there is a difference between not being in awe of music (are you sure other conductors were or are in awe of the music they conduct?) and chopping out the bits you don't like!

And, in the case of Haas, the "chopping out bits" were a result of his "awe" of Bruckner.

[gradus]

He made a fine recording of Bruckner 7 (inc cymbal clash)when Bruckner was virtually never heard in concert halls but I don't know which edition he used - there always seem to be several with Bruckner.
Klemperer said in his Face to Face interview with John Freeman that he thought The Rite would not stay the course so his scepticism may have been occasionally misplaced, he was after all only human despite the impression that his titanic interpretations of Beethoven could leave on the audience.

[jayne lee wilson]

And, in the case of Haas, the "chopping out bits" were a result of his "awe" of Bruckner.

Hmm.... I think you'll find most of the controversy around Haas Editions of Bruckner Symphonies concern restorations, rather than excision. Which in my view were indeed a labour of love ("awe" if you like) whether arguably misdirected or not...
(The omission of percussion in the 7th's adagio is a rare exception.)

AFAIK Klemperer always used Nowak in the 7th, i.e with cymbals, triangle & timps in the adagio. There's only one published edition, 1885. Nowak with percussion, Haas without. Some conductors include the timps but leave out the crash and jangle.

[Richard Barrett]

Just what's needed, another thread about Bruckner editions!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Just what's needed, another thread about Bruckner editions!

Klemperer's interpretive decisions were often the result of his bipolar conditions as much as anything else - does anyone know if the recording of the Eighth he gave in concert with the Cologne orchestra also has the cuts that disfigure his Philharmonia studio version?

As Gradus says, other Bruckner symphonies recorded by Klemperer received very fine recordings indeed - displaying, if not awe of the composer, then great respect for the scores.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oh - and whilst his opinion of The Rite of Spring curled up and died by the roadside, he was one of the first people to realize the significance of what Stockhausen achieved in Gruppen.

[Conchis]

Although there is a difference between not being in awe of music (are you sure other conductors were or are in awe of the music they conduct?) and chopping out the bits you don't like!

You have a point: but most tend to be circumspect about expressing their feelings. Haitink fulminates against the 'tyranny of the complete cycle', Barenboim opines that 'not all' of Berlioz' works are of the same standard as the Symphonie Fantastique.

What made Klemperer somewhat different was his bluntness about works he didn't feel were entirely successful. Another conductor might have preferred not to record Bruckner 8 rather than cut it (and Giulini famously refused to conduct works he didn't feel 'total sympathy' with). I'm amazed at the amount of 'standard' repertoire Klemperer conducted (a lot of it is revelatory, especially his Franck Symphony), most of of which he probably had grave reservations about.

[jayne lee wilson]

Klemperer's interpretive decisions were often the result of his bipolar conditions as much as anything else - does anyone know if the recording of the Eighth he gave in concert with the Cologne orchestra also has the cuts that disfigure his Philharmonia studio version?

As Gradus says, other Bruckner symphonies recorded by Klemperer received very fine recordings indeed - displaying, if not awe of the composer, then great respect for the scores.

The 1957 live Cologne Radio 8th is, according to Richard Osborne in Gramophone (Medici issue, 7/2008) Nowak - without cuts. And well worth hearing.

[Richard Barrett]

Another conductor might have preferred not to record Bruckner 8 rather than cut it

I have to say I respect that attitude more, although of course anyone is free to make whatever cuts they like in anything they perform, the missing music is still there for others to play.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The 1957 live Cologne Radio 8th is, according to Richard Osborne in Gramophone (Medici issue, 7/2008) Nowak - without cuts. And well worth hearing.

Thank you for this information - I've just now ordered a copy as a result.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

What made Klemperer somewhat different was his bluntness about works he didn't feel were entirely successful. Another conductor might have preferred not to record Bruckner 8 rather than cut it (and Giulini famously refused to conduct works he didn't feel 'total sympathy' with). I'm amazed at the amount of 'standard' repertoire Klemperer conducted (a lot of it is revelatory, especially his Franck Symphony), most of of which he probably had grave reservations about.

Would this happen to be the repertoire about which you yourself have "grave reservations", Conchis?

I cannot find any comment by Klemperer about the Franck Symphony, for example (a work that Furtwangler also featured in his concerts) - indeed, most of the comments about repertoire that I can find (admitedly, I haven't looked at all thoroughly) are those in the Heyworth conversation books. They reflect Otto's opinions at the time at which he gave them - and, given that his studio recording of the Bruckner #8 doesn't reflect his earlier approach to the work, I would hesitate to assume that what he says at the end of his life necessarily reflects his career-long attitude to the works and composers he discusses.

[Conchis]

Would this happen to be the repertoire about which you yourself have "grave reservations", Conchis?

I cannot find any comment by Klemperer about the Franck Symphony, for example (a work that Furtwangler also featured in his concerts) - indeed, most of the comments about repertoire that I can find (admitedly, I haven't looked at all thoroughly) are those in the Heyworth conversation books. They reflect Otto's opinions at the time at which he gave them - and, given that his studio recording of the Bruckner #8 doesn't reflect his earlier approach to the work, I would hesitate to assume that what he says at the end of his life necessarily reflects his career-long attitude to the works and composers he discusses.

I wouldn't presume to have 'grave reservations' about any of the music Klemperer opined on. But a man who could nitpick over Bruckner and Mahler and who felt that Wagner 'developed backwards', preferring Hollander and Tannhauser to Tristan and the Ring probably had a few reservations about, say, Tchaikovsky and Franck (and I love K's recordings of the final three Tchaikovsky symphonies).

[Richard Barrett]

who felt that Wagner 'developed backwards', preferring Holländer and Tannhäuser to Tristan and the Ring

What a strange way to think... where does he say this? does he offer any justification for it?