Davey Speaks

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

You will never go back to being a 12-year-old hearing something unfamiliar for the first time.

That would make a good thread starter.

[MrGongGong]

Ah, yes. JP had some great ideas, but he only intended these to be part of a mixed and balanced music curriculum. Unfortunately, many of his followers picked up only on the more radical aspects and ditched the rest, with very loud voices.

So some people tell me but I haven't really seen much real evidence of this.
BUT look how dull and dreary music education has become.
What is extraordinary looking at some of the material is how global it is in outlook compared to much of what happens these days

[french frank]

I wouldn't think that unfamiliarity is necessarily a 'barrier' unless people make it into one.

No, but I wasn't quite as dogmatic as to suggest that it had to be the case .

I think the 'problem' is that people often make such a big deal of what, to them is unusual (Xenakis's music is a good example) when children will simply hear it as exciting music.

I'm sure you're right - but the other problem there is: When/Where are they going to hear Xenakis?

[MrGongGong]

I'm sure you're right - but the other problem there is: When/Where are they going to hear Xenakis?

Come along tomorrow
I'm going to a primary school to do some field recordings and make a sound installation for a sculpture park
We did drawing sounds last time so a bit of UPIC stuff n'all

[Richard Barrett]

a bit of UPIC stuff n'all

Should be one in every school! I don't know whether I've mentioned this before, but way back in 1989 I was working with UPIC during its residency at the Barbican - school students during the day and finishing my own stuff during the night (I did spend one or two nights there sleeping on the floor...). The younger they were the quicker they picked up the relationship between what you see and what you hear. Most of the adults who dropped in for a demo didn't get it at all. Of course, for obvious reasons, one of the political purposes of institutional education is to replace imagination with conformity, er I mean common sense, but in that situation you could really see how the process works.

[french frank]

I'm going to a primary school to do some field recordings and make a sound installation for a sculpture park
We did drawing sounds last time so a bit of UPIC stuff n'all

Where does that lead, musically?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

So some people tell me but I haven't really seen much real evidence of this.

Well, I do go back a bit.

BUT look how dull and dreary music education has become.

Hasn't it just?

What is extraordinary looking at some of the material is how global it is in outlook compared to much of what happens these days

Quite so. There's much that should be revived.

[MrGongGong]

Where does that lead, musically?

To a performance, installation, sound map
lots of listening to different musics
and so on and so on and so on

[MrGongGong]

Should be one in every school! I don't know whether I've mentioned this before, but way back in 1989 I was working with UPIC during its residency at the Barbican - school students during the day and finishing my own stuff during the night (I did spend one or two nights there sleeping on the floor...). The younger they were the quicker they picked up the relationship between what you see and what you hear. Most of the adults who dropped in for a demo didn't get it at all. Of course, for obvious reasons, one of the political purposes of institutional education is to replace imagination with conformity, er I mean common sense, but in that situation you could really see how the process works.

This

https://www.abc.se/~re/Coagula/Coagula.html

is FREE (PC only)
and a bit like the Ladybird Book of UPIC

I've been putting it on all the computers I find in schools
and making pieces with groups etc etc

Can be used for basic sonification as well

[french frank]

To a performance, installation, sound map
lots of listening to different musics
and so on and so on and so on

Rather than a description of what you/they do, I was wondering what … difficult to frame a question which won't simply provoke another response … but let's say, on a more abstract level, how do you explain (if asked) what you're doing it for? Or, what do the youngsters get out of it in the long term?

[MrGongGong]

Rather than a description of what you/they do, I was wondering what … difficult to frame a question which won't simply provoke another response … but let's say, on a more abstract level, how do you explain (if asked) what you're doing it for? Or, what do the youngsters get out of it in the long term?

Aaah

So the question of what music is "for" is very much part of this gig, as the school i'm in tomorrow is in a community that contains some folks who don't do music for religious reasons.
What I tend to do is to think and talk about sounds rather than talking about "music", so we can discuss how people like different things, how sounds change depending on the time of day, location etc. How people use collections of sounds (or "music") for different purposes and contexts etc

In the long term ?
More awareness of the sonic environment, more appreciation of all sorts of music and the idea that music is something that could be part of their lives either as listeners, creators or participants in other ways.

[Richard Barrett]

what do the youngsters get out of it in the long term?

That's the kind of question I'd expect from someone who thought that education whose results can't be precisely quantified should be stamped out (from state schools at least)! MrGG will have his own answer, but I'd refuse to accept the premise of the question.

[french frank]

That's the kind of question I'd expect from someone who thought that education whose results can't be precisely quantified should be stamped out (from state schools at least)! MrGG will have his own answer, but I'd refuse to accept the premise of the question.

No, that is presupposing an answer that I wasn't asking for. Unless, you mean that the point of the exercise is the immediate, short-term enjoyment/engagement; and there is no longer-term personal gain for the participants.

That may be the case, in which case it has nothing whatsoever to do with the issues, brusquely dismissed by some, discussed in the article.

[Lat-Literal]

A bit of hyperbole here I think, unless you've used a faulty analysis process. Would I be considered someone who tweets just because I have a twitter account, which I last used for some fairly trivial purpose several years ago? I think people who do that kind of thing do spend more than a minute each time they go for it, and that probably does push up the figure somewhat. Perhaps you also should disregard anyone who only tweets once or twice a month.

My source was BBC Radio 4 so it must be correct.

I joined Twitter for the first time last Thursday to see what it was like and deleted my account within 24 hours.

There is absolutely nothing to do on it - I found the same when I joined Facebook for one day some years ago.

But it's two more days than my time with gaming.

I doubt that you or I are in their natural cohorts.

[bluestateprommer]

People here may (or may not) be interested (or not) in AD's address to the Association of British Orchestras today in Cardiff, the transcript of which is available thus:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/speeches/2018/alan-davey-abo