"Stephen Johnson explores Brahms's Fourth Symphony, written in the 2 years following the Third Symphony. It was Brahms's final work in this genre and is remarkably original; Stephen explores some of the characteristics of the work's opening understated lilting melody, and considers the similarities with one of Brahms's Four Serious Songs, written the year before he died. The programme includes illustrative extracts, and a complete performance of the work performed by the BBC Symphony Orchestra and its Chief Conductor Jiří Bělohlávek."
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It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world. -
Thanks, ff. I hope I don't forget this one. (It's never the same quality on Listen Again, through my tinny laptop speakers.)
Brahms 4 was the last of his symphonies that I became familiar with, and now I reate it the most highly. I ignored on the faulty opinion of a friend who told me it wasn't as good as the other three. The remarkable thing about the 4 Brahms symphonies seems to be their consistency. All 4 are really great works. I'm not sure that this can be said of any other composer's symphonic output - not even Beethoven's. Elgar, perhaps, but he only composed 2.
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I personally do think that Brahms 4 is one of his most daring and foreward looking works:Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
-continuous thematic development, based on rising and falling thirds, a hallmark of Brahms' since his pianosonatas (especially op.5), These point at Beethoven's op.106 sonata's 1st mvt (of which Brahms bought the sketches approximately the same time as the score of JSBach's cantata 150, the latter with the chorale which provided the theme of the symphony's finale)
-opening bars defining all of the 4 mvts in one way or another
-demonstrating how "sonata"-form can be completely re-invented (btw: there is no repeat in this mvt!)
-demonstrating that "old forms" as a Chaconne/Passacaglia can effectively be used in new contexts
-ending a symphony in a minor key at the end of a finale without major modulations (its parts are either in e or E)
It would be nice if we could hear the four original introductionary bars as well, either played on the piano, or -preferably- by the orchestra.
As far as the symphony's relation with the 4 Serious songs op.121:
the symphony opens with B G E C, the very same four notes used for O Tod, O Tod [wie bitter bist du], the 3rd of op.121
Looking forward to listen to that programme too.Comment
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I am pleased that Discovering Music has started to include complete works. As I and probably most listeners only have records of a few of the musical works dealt with it is good to be able to hear the presenters' thoughts in context. Also with iPlayer you can leap back and listen again. Good for students.The programme includes illustrative extracts, and a complete performance of the work performed by the BBC Symphony Orchestra and its Chief Conductor Jiří Bělohlávek."Comment
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...while someone reminds you that Elgar actually composed not two but three, perhaps?...Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View PostComment
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And you are right to do so Mr. Sinfonie.Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
Oh and we do commend Mr. Roehre's description in the following message.
Incidentally one notes that there is not a hint of "folk music" in any of Brahms's serious compositions.Comment
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One might reasonably suppose that the seriousness of Brahms's works will vary somewhat from piece to piece, but are you seeking to infer that some of them are not serious at all?Originally posted by Sydney Grew View Post
Equally "incidentally", I understand that, when someone once chastised Elgar for eschewing folk music in his works, the composer replied that he was one of the folk and he wrote music, therefore he wrote "folk music" (although I don't believe that he put inverted commas around those words as you do above)...Comment
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Ahem... I was at the RFH premiere of the Elgar-Payne 3 and have the programme, CD and score signed by Elgar's esteemed collaborator, but fully acknowledge that this was the work of two composers, not one.Originally posted by ahinton View PostComment
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e duobus unus, though?...Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
I was there too, actually.Comment
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For me Brahms 4 is the greatest of all symphonies. Terse, tragic and incontrovertible in its inexorable musical logic.
Right, now I'll step out of Pseuds' Corner and get my coat. Anyone fancy a pint?Comment
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Elgar did only write 2, I'll never refer to the rambling Payne Symphony on ideas nicked from Elgar as Elgar 3, I grew up with the 2 great symphonies and so it shall remain - I like them both, possibly 1 marginally more, probably because of the bridge between movts 2 and 3, but was there ever a better intro and finale than No 2. Brahms symphonic output was certainly more consistent than R Strauss in his 4! symphonies, if maybe not so adventurous!Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View PostComment
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Splutter !
All Beethoven, Mahler and Sibelius symphonies are great works IMO !Comment
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Not keen on Brahms and find symphonys no.2 to 4 disappointing. But not No.1 which is actually good!
All too seroius however.
But I do like the last mvt of symphony no.4. And I like exploring symphonies in general so I will be tuning in. Heard this symphony in 2007 (going past Dawlish on the bus!) I was expecting great things from mvt 1 but it didnt happen.
Mvt 2 is a depressing version of away in a manger. Mvt 3-Ugh! Elgar cocagain overture in the making. Mvt 4 suprisingly good and a rather funky ending!
Mvt 1 doesnt repeat. But you could say that about Dvorak 7 masterly mvt 1 or all the Tchaikovsky ones esp. the masterly nos 4,5 and 6!
3VSComment
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and Brahms could have done something in his development sections! Nothing was stopping him.
3VSComment
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