What Classical Music Are You listening to Now? III

[jayne lee wilson]

I listened to Venzago in D.759, actually just to III and IV, figuring that I am reasonably conversant with the first two movements of the Unfinished. I feel particularly let down by the Rosamunde music serving as the finale. In the “Great” C Major Movement IV May be guilty of to much Heavenly Length and repetition, but at least structurally it seems like a sturdy counterpart to I and II, with the Scherzo as a bit of light relief. Here the Rosamunde entracte just seems to be insufficient ballast, like a magnificent temple being required to stand on a plywood platform. Maybe this was Schubert’s intention as I am ignorant of the scholarship. Didn’t work for me.

Listening to all four movements more than once might be a better approach.........I would again recommend the Gottfried for this....an amazing, shattering record in whatever wise you take it.... heard complete, the B Minor Symphony is a pretty demanding piece, even rather exhausting emotionally, akin to a Bruckner Symphony. Very bold, very new.
Also, probably best approached initially from the POV of the 6th and 7th Symphonies, rather than looking back from the vast scale of the great C Major, whose scherzo is itself as long or longer than any of the other Schubert Symphony Finales ...and seems more than light relief to me, I must say; it comes as a joyful release of energy after two movements of great weight and depth, the slow movement especially.
But in the 8th, the scherzo's energies only serve to tighten the screw (rather like the 4th Symphony); there's a heightened intensity, the sense that this isn't over yet - no wonder D759 is the more challenging listen.

But there are several examples of Schubert finales which might seem too lightweight or less serious or structurally simplistic, compared to the work they conclude......
D804, D894, D898, D960...... but we've always known them as those finales, in a 4-movement context, so we just accept them and - there is of course rather more to them than initially meets the ear.
But you'll always be up against "the familiarity problem" with D759. A problem of unbalanced or overbalanced perception and response.

Personally I could never listen to the Great B Minor Symphony in two movements now.... never again.... far from being somehow sufficient unto themselves, once I knew the stern drama of the scherzo and the desperate, inescapable maze-like circularity of the finale - crucially in context, to hear only the far-too-famous first two seemed only lessen their impact and stature...... and hadn't they long become too familiar to really "hear" or be heard, in any meaningful way?

The very brevity of the so-called "Unfinished Symphony" has led to it having an existence as a concert-program makeweight.... from which conceptual & artistic misrepresentation I am very happy to be liberated!

[BBMmk2]

A few Forum members are listening to Bruckner at the moment, as I have been.

[Pulcinella]

A few Forum members are listening to Bruckner at the moment, as I have been.

Yes: even I put the new BBC MM CD on.


Didn't make it to the end though, but perhaps I should, to see what all the comments about the coda are about!
Though did Flay's original question (Where does it start?) ever get answered?

[Stanfordian]

Régine Crespin - ‘Shéhérazade’
Berlioz
Les Nuits d'été, Op. 7
Ravel
Shéhérazade, orchestral song cycle
Recorded 1963, Victoria Hall, Geneva
Debussy
Trois chansons de Bilitis
Poulenc
7 Chansons
Régine Crespin (soprano)
L'Orchestre de la Suisse Romande / Ernest Ansermet
with John Wustman (piano)
Recorded 1967, Kingsway Hall, London
Decca ‘The Originals’

Saint-Saëns
Cello Concerto No. 1 in A minor, Op. 33
Cello Concerto No. 2 in D minor, Op. 119
La muse et le poète, Op. 132
Suite for cello and orchestra, Op. 16
Prière, Op. 158
Steven Isserlis (cello)
London Symphony Orchestra / Michael Tilson Thomas
NDR Symphony Orchestra / Christoph Eschenbach
with Joshua Bell (violin) & Francis Grier (organ)
Recorded 1992 Blackheath Concert Halls, London; 1992 Eton College Chapel, Windsor; 1999 Musikhalle, Hamburg
BMG-RCA Red Seal

[Bryn]

Prompted by Stephen Hough mentioning on Radio 4 this morning that he had been due to perform Beethoven's 3rd Piano Concerto tonight, that very work, though in the recording by Anthony Newman, the 'Philomusica Antiqua, London' and Stephen Simon (conductor). A recording on which, IIRC, member Tony played.

[richardfinegold]

A few Forum members are listening to Bruckner at the moment, as I have been.

I listened to both the Horenstein and the Wand Eighth yesterday, then as I turned on the radio while making dinner guess what was playing...

[richardfinegold]

Listening to all four movements more than once might be a better approach.........I would again recommend the Gottfried for this....an amazing, shattering record in whatever wise you take it.... heard complete, the B Minor Symphony is a pretty demanding piece, even rather exhausting emotionally, akin to a Bruckner Symphony. Very bold, very new.
Also, probably best approached initially from the POV of the 6th and 7th Symphonies, rather than looking back from the vast scale of the great C Major, whose scherzo is itself as long or longer than any of the other Schubert Symphony Finales ...and seems more than light relief to me, I must say; it comes as a joyful release of energy after two movements of great weight and depth, the slow movement especially.
But in the 8th, the scherzo's energies only serve to tighten the screw (rather like the 4th Symphony); there's a heightened intensity, the sense that this isn't over yet - no wonder D759 is the more challenging listen.

But there are several examples of Schubert finales which might seem too lightweight or less serious or structurally simplistic, compared to the work they conclude......
D804, D894, D898, D960...... but we've always known them as those finales, in a 4-movement context, so we just accept them and - there is of course rather more to them than initially meets the ear.
But you'll always be up against "the familiarity problem" with D759. A problem of unbalanced or overbalanced perception and response.

Personally I could never listen to the Great B Minor Symphony in two movements now.... never again.... far from being somehow sufficient unto themselves, once I knew the stern drama of the scherzo and the desperate, inescapable maze-like circularity of the finale - crucially in context, to hear only the far-too-famous first two seemed only lessen their impact and stature...... and hadn't they long become too familiar to really "hear" or be heard, in any meaningful way?

The very brevity of the so-called "Unfinished Symphony" has led to it having an existence as a concert-program makeweight.... from which conceptual & artistic misrepresentation I am very happy to be liberated!

As I was writing my impressions it occurred to me that Schubert has penned many works that are lopsided in that their finales seem insufficient, so why shouldn’t the “Unfinished” have the same fate. However, the works that you cite suffer for this, and I don’t listen to them very much for precisely that reason.
I contend, based on no scholarship whatsoever, that Schubert would have edited and polished some of his works had he had time and financial incentive to do so. He was barely 30 when he died and published virtually nothing in his lifetime. If he had lived a few more years and been discovered by a publisher, and started to get some recognition and some cash, maybe his publisher would have looked at the rest of his output and urged him to make some changes. Perhaps he would have met the likes of Schumann and Mendelssohn and gotten some advice. Who knows?
Regarding listening to the Unfinished all 4 movements at once...well that would always be advisable. However, it’s one of thos pieces, such as Beethoven Fifth, that I listened to repetitively as a teenager to the point of being jaded, and probably encountered in the Concert Hall a dozen times since, etc. After a Bruckner Marathon yesterday, I did a shortcut

[Bryn]

https://anothertimbre.bandcamp.com/album/two-pianos-and-other-pieces-1953-1969

[Sir Velo]

As I was writing my impressions it occurred to me that Schubert has penned many works that are lopsided in that their finales seem insufficient, so why shouldn’t the “Unfinished” have the same fate. However, the works that you cite suffer for this, and I don’t listen to them very much for precisely that reason.
I contend, based on no scholarship whatsoever, that Schubert would have edited and polished some of his works had he had time and financial incentive to do so. He was barely 30 when he died and published virtually nothing in his lifetime. If he had lived a few more years and been discovered by a publisher, and started to get some recognition and some cash, maybe his publisher would have looked at the rest of his output and urged him to make some changes. Perhaps he would have met the likes of Schumann and Mendelssohn and gotten some advice. Who knows?
Regarding listening to the Unfinished all 4 movements at once...well that would always be advisable. However, it’s one of thos pieces, such as Beethoven Fifth, that I listened to repetitively as a teenager to the point of being jaded, and probably encountered in the Concert Hall a dozen times since, etc. After a Bruckner Marathon yesterday, I did a shortcut

I'm not particularly au fait with the Venzago, but there is no lack of drama about the Gottfried realisation. Indeed, there is very little slackening of tension after the first two movements. The choices that Gottfried made in terms of how to complete the work are compelling to my mind. The scherzo has a proto Brucknerian thrust in its obsessive iteration of the main musical germ. The "finale" continues with the same relentless thrust towards a seemingly inevitable tragic conclusion.

[BBMmk2]

As I was writing my impressions it occurred to me that Schubert has penned many works that are lopsided in that their finales seem insufficient, so why shouldn’t the “Unfinished” have the same fate. However, the works that you cite suffer for this, and I don’t listen to them very much for precisely that reason.
I contend, based on no scholarship whatsoever, that Schubert would have edited and polished some of his works had he had time and financial incentive to do so. He was barely 30 when he died and published virtually nothing in his lifetime. If he had lived a few more years and been discovered by a publisher, and started to get some recognition and some cash, maybe his publisher would have looked at the rest of his output and urged him to make some changes. Perhaps he would have met the likes of Schumann and Mendelssohn and gotten some advice. Who knows?
Regarding listening to the Unfinished all 4 movements at once...well that would always be advisable. However, it’s one of thos pieces, such as Beethoven Fifth, that I listened to repetitively as a teenager to the point of being jaded, and probably encountered in the Concert Hall a dozen times since, etc. After a Bruckner Marathon yesterday, I did a shortcut

Joseph Haydn
Mass No.14 in Bb major, "Harmoniemesse"
Malin Hartelius, Michaela Knab(sopranos)
Judith Schmid (contralto)
Franz-Josef Seliog (bass)
Chor und Symphonieorchester des Bayrischen Rundfunks
Mariss Jansons.

[jayne lee wilson]

Yes: even I put the new BBC MM CD on.


Didn't make it to the end though, but perhaps I should, to see what all the comments about the coda are about!
Though did Flay's original question (Where does it start?) ever get answered?

It sure did..........

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?7479-Bruckner-8-and-that-great-coda/page2

...and vide 4 and 7 for close structural parallels....

[Pulcinella]

It sure did..........

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?7479-Bruckner-8-and-that-great-coda/page2

...and vide 4 and 7 for close structural parallels....

Thanks.....I should have trawled through the thread.

[jayne lee wilson]

....once I pick it up, it won't let go....

Schubert Symphony No.7 D729 in E Major. (Arr. Weingartner 1934, after the particell of 1821).
Berlin Radio SO/Rogner. Berlin Classics CD/Qobuz lossless stream.

Incredibly catchy ear-worming Schubert, wonderfully realised by Felix W.,(richer, fuller more engaging realisation than the Newbould, which sounds somewhat underdeveloped... maybe we should call D729 "The Unpolished"...).

OK - this is essential listening for all Schubertians ...! Why? Because its lovely and....I'd love to hear what others feel about it.....

Of the two I have I still prefer this one over the SWR/CPO (good though that is) - wonderful bounce, liveliness, joy and a sense of sheer Schubertian fun about it...

(See #10579 for links...)

[visualnickmos]

Bruckner
Symphony no. 6
Bohuslav Martinu Philharmonie / Georg Tintner
(Deutsche Schallplatten, 1992)

This version doesn't really cut the mustard, compared with Tintner's very splendid Naxos recording. The recorded sound is not comparable, and the dynamic range - so vital in Bruckner, is not as well defined. Timing comparisons : -

Deutsche schallplatten 1992
1 16:35
2 16:51
3 8:20
4 13:45

Naxos 1995
1 17:02
2 18:46
3 8:55
4 14:44

[Suffolkcoastal]

Score following - Days 13 & 14

B Bartok:
Kossuth - Symphonic Poem for Large Orchestra
Violin Concerto No 1
String Quartet No 1
String Quartet No 2
The Miraculous Mandarin (complete ballet)
Dance Suite