What Classical Music Are You listening to Now? III

[Roger Webb]

Agree about the performance, it was so energetic and powerful.

Yes, and I was greatly amused by Ian Skelly's announcement after it had finished telling us we had just heard the 3rd of Prokofiev's six piano concertos!

[Pulcinella]

Found the post on 'lost record shops'...and yes 'morning Roger' it was, I used to be 'all day Roger' until I semi retired...oh, and the shop was actually called Bristol Classical Discs not Records. Before that I had Pastoral Music in Christmas Steps. Thanks for letting me know about the post.

Listening to a great Prokofiev PC 3 with Alex Malofeev on R3 at the moment.

Good grief! Pastoral Music.

Hello Roger.
I used to help you and Nick out (with my partner) in Pastoral Music and owe my old 22CD Stravinsky set (now passed on to an old school friend when replaced by the even bigger boxed set) to you.
The last I heard you were heading to France with Barbara.

I'm not sure if PMs still work on this rejuvenated site.
I'll try to send a message to get back in touch (or ask ff if she can somehow let you have an email address for me).

[Roger Webb]

Good grief! Pastoral Music.

Hello Roger.
I used to help you and Nick out (with my partner) in Pastoral Music and owe my old 22CD Stravinsky set (now passed on to an old school friend when replaced by the even bigger boxed set) to you.
The last I heard you were heading to France with Barbara.

I'm not sure if PMs still work on this rejuvenated site.
I'll try to send a message to get back in touch (or ask ff if she can somehow let you have an email address for me).

Of course! How are you? In York?

I've just started posts on this network today, so still feeling my way round. Amazing the number of old friends still remember the Bristol shops. 'Heading to France with Barbara' was the dream....the Wye Valley was the reality though!...with Babs, of course!!

Get in touch if you can.

Roger.

[Pulcinella]

Of course! How are you? In York?

I've just started posts on this network today, so still feeling my way round. Amazing the number of old friends still remember the Bristol shops. 'Heading to France with Barbara' was the dream....the Wye Valley was the reality though!...with Babs, of course!!

Get in touch if you can.

Roger.

I have sent a PM so hope you get it and can reply.

[smittims]

Beethoven : Sonata in F minor , op.57 (Appassionata): Wilhelm Backhaus, the earlier (mono) of his two LP recordings.

This is a good example of why one should occasionally disregard the critics and make one's own choice. I think this is my least favourite of all the Beethoven sonatas, maybe because so many pianists seem to me to overdo the dramatic aspects of it. The Record Guide didn't like this recording at all, but I enjoyed it very much; I'm not sure I don't prefer it to my otherwise favourite Walter Gieseking.

[Stanfordian]

Mozart
Don Giovanni – two act opera (prem. 1787)
Don Giovanni (baritone) Eberhard Wächter; Donna Anna (soprano) Joan Sutherland;
Leporello (bass) Giuseppe Taddei; Il Commendatore (bass) Gottlob Frick;
Donna Elvira (soprano) Elisabeth Schwarzkopf; Don Ottavio (tenor) Luigi Alva;
Masetto (bass) Piero Cappuccilli; Zerlina (soprano) Graziella Sciutti
Philharmonia Chorus,
Philharmonia Orchestra / Carlo Maria Giulini
Recorded 1959, No. 1 Studio, Abbey Rd, London
EMI Classics 'Great Recordings of the Century' 3 CD set
My planned listening for this evening.

Beethoven – Late String Quartets
String Quartet No's: 12, Op. 127; No. 13, Op. 130; Große Fuge, Op. 133;
No. 14, Op. 131; No. 15 , Op. 132; No. 16, Op. 135
Alban Berg Quartet
Recorded Live 1989, Mozartsaal, Konzerthaus, Vienna
EMI Classics 'Great Recordings of the Century' 3 CD set
I'll be dipping into this set today.

[oliver sudden]

Um! Thought about this a lot over the years. Have you read Norman del Mar's examination of the question in his Eulenburg Edition? His preference was for slow movt. 2nd. And I bow to his extensive knowledge of the score...but! I think it makes more sense as Mahler first wrote it. The ends of movements 'join' better with the beginnings of following movements with the slow movement third, particularly the transition from slow to last movt. Surely Mahler's intention for the opening of the last movement is bringing one round from a dream ( slow movt) to the reality of 'the struggle must go on'. This magical moment goes for nothing if the scherzo is third - the magic is lost anyhow if there's applause between movements!

I haven't read the Del Mar study. I've been tempted sometimes but it's not in print as far as I know and a bit pricey to get hold of. (Of course the Eulenburg edition of the score itself continues to be that awful Redlich shambles which ignores basically everything Mahler revised.)

I'm very much for Andante second, Scherzo third for all manner of reasons. One of which is that that's the only order Mahler ever performed and there's no direct evidence of him ever changing his mind! Of course Scherzo-Andante has its merits, that was the original plan after all. But Andante-Scherzo has other things going for it and those are the things Mahler preferred.

If it hadn't been for Ratz swapping the movements back, no one would ever have heard Scherzo-Andante except maybe as a musicological curiosity (like hearing Titan instead of the first symphony). As it is, so many of the great Mahler conductors only ever played the movements in an order Mahler rejected before the premiere and never returned to. I think that's an awful situation, to be honest! And it certainly affects our perception as listeners of the purely musical merits of the different orderings...

[smittims]

I have that 'live' set of the late Beethovens with the Alban Berg Quartet, Stanfordian. I can never decide whether it's better than their earlier studio set. I think they recorded all the Beethoven Quartets at those concerts,and quite a bit of Mozart too, which was issued by EMI and makes an interesting comparison with their earlier Telefunken set.

The Berg Quartet are my favourite modern (digital era) quartet, though I've been delighted with the Angeles quartet's compete Haydn on Decca.

[Roger Webb]

[QUOTE=oliver sudden;n1298776]

I haven't read the Del Mar study. I've been tempted sometimes but it's not in print as far as I know and a bit pricey to get hold of. (Of course the Eulenburg edition of the score itself continues to be that awful Redlich shambles which ignores basically everything Mahler revised.)

I'm very much for Andante second, Scherzo third for all manner of reasons....

Yes, actually I can see both points of view, and there must be reasons (perhaps other than purely 'musical' ones) that inform
preference...how did one hear it first... familiarity, too used to a particular version, etc.

You're right about the number of conductors of stature (note, I didn't say 'great'!) that play it 'my way', and it would be interesting to ask them - unfortunately many of them are no longer askable!
The two versions I have on CD, Karajan and Haitink 'did it my way', but I've heard it in the concert hall done 'your way', and plenty of times via radio both. Rattle, I think always did/does it slow movt. second. However, let's assume 'conductor's of stature' like Tennstedt knew WHY they did it the way they did, and enjoy one of great (there, I used the word!) performances of the work. Qobuz has the Tennstedt Proms perf. and with no awkward 'side turn' unlike the CD version.

[Pulcinella]

I haven't read the Del Mar study. I've been tempted sometimes but it's not in print as far as I know and a bit pricey to get hold of. (Of course the Eulenburg edition of the score itself continues to be that awful Redlich shambles which ignores basically everything Mahler revised.)

I'm very much for Andante second, Scherzo third for all manner of reasons. One of which is that that's the only order Mahler ever performed and there's no direct evidence of him ever changing his mind! Of course Scherzo-Andante has its merits, that was the original plan after all. But Andante-Scherzo has other things going for it and those are the things Mahler preferred.

If it hadn't been for Ratz swapping the movements back, no one would ever have heard Scherzo-Andante except maybe as a musicological curiosity (like hearing Titan instead of the first symphony). As it is, so many of the great Mahler conductors only ever played the movements in an order Mahler rejected before the premiere and never returned to. I think that's an awful situation, to be honest! And it certainly affects our perception as listeners of the purely musical merits of the different orderings...

Oliver and Roger
This particular bone of contention has probably been gnawed to death in this thread:

https://www.for3.org/forums/forum/classical-forum/record-review/building-a-library/23873-bal-7-01-23-mahler-symphony-no-6-in-a-minor

[Roger Webb]

Oliver and Roger
This particular bone of contention has probably been gnawed to death in this thread:

https://www.for3.org/forums/forum/cl...o-6-in-a-minor

Probably right!

I'm actually listening to the Roddy Williams Delius 'Mass of Life' and it reminded me that I think you were at the Proms perf cond. Norman del Mar back in the early 80s, after a party in Hyde Park?
I'm pretty sure you disliked the work then......have you warmed to it over the years?

[Pulcinella]

Probably right!

I'm actually listening to the Roddy Williams Delius 'Mass of Life' and it reminded me that I think you were at the Proms perf cond. Norman del Mar back in the early 80s, after a party in Hyde Park?
I'm pretty sure you disliked the work then......have you warmed to it over the years?

Don't think it was me.
Didn't move back to the UK until 1981 and not to Bristol until 1987; not the sort of piece that would normally attract me if I had limited Proms opportunities!

Ah: it was the 1988 season though.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/events/e254fx

Did we perhaps have a Pastoral Music works outing that I've forgotten about?

[Roger Webb]

Don't think it was me.
Didn't move back to the UK until 1981 and not to Bristol until 1987; not the sort of piece that would normally attract me if I had limited Proms opportunities!

Ah: it was the 1988 season though.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/events/e254fx

Did we perhaps have a Pastoral Music works outing that I've forgotten about?

It was exactly that....I thought it was 'early' 80s to tie in with the deaths of Delius, Holst and Elgar fifty years before, so '84, but it was '88 you're right - I have the Pastoral Music newsletter in front of me...probably a victim of your eagle-eyed proofreading!

I'm sure you were there....if not I apologise for not inviting you...next time, maybe.

[Pulcinella]

It was exactly that....I thought it was 'early' 80s to tie in with the deaths of Delius, Holst and Elgar fifty years before, so '84, but it was '88 you're right - I have the Pastoral Music newsletter in front of me...probably a victim of your eagle-eyed proofreading!

I'm sure you were there....if not I apologise for not inviting you...next time, maybe.

OH thinks (sic) you might be right!

Other readers: sorry, but (as you might sense) I'm delighted to be back in touch with Roger!

Currently listening to a CD that includes
Walter Leigh
Concertino for harpsichord and orchestra
(though not the Lyrita one).
Do you remember that featuring in one of your customer quizzes?

PS: Eternal gratitude for recommending Lucca as a place to visit in Tuscany.

[Roger Webb]

OH thinks (sic) you might be right!

Other readers: sorry, but (as you might sense) I'm delighted to be back in touch with Roger!

Currently listening to a CD that includes
Walter Leigh
Concertino for harpsichord and orchestra
(though not the Lyrita one).
Do you remember that featuring in one of your customer quizzes?

PS: Eternal gratitude for recommending Lucca as a place to visit in Tuscany.

Yes, 'other members' will have had quite enough of this love-in, but what are 'proper' music shop owners for if not dispensers of travel info, restaurant recommendations and wine advocacy!

Now with the Walter Leigh one of those nice bottles of Brunello you should have brought back from Tuscany!

I've got on Britten's Suite on English Folk Tunes: A time there was....now a pint of Adnams with that, I think.