What Classical Music Are You listening to Now? III

[Mandryka]

Eh? Etudes Australes were composed by Cage for Grete Sultan. As to the flexible time brackets, the acoustic space and its reverberative properties may well play their part in a musician's particular response to them, no?

Right, and I was guessing that he was aware of her performance approach and approved. There's an enormous difference at the expressive level between Sultan and, for example, Scheleiermacher and Liebner. So my reasoning was that, even in music which was composed by procedures which involved random elements, he wasn't averse to his performers embellishing the score a bit to make it an expressive listening experience.

[Mandryka]

As to the flexible time brackets, the acoustic space and its reverberative properties may well play their part in a musician's particular response to them, no?

I guess that is part of it. By the way, not flexible time brackets but random processes to determine pitch, duration etc, one of the most beautiful and moving Cage performances I know is this

https://open.spotify.com/track/6QtRHvCsy2KsOWk5AAtXj0?si=84186b1322de44eb

[Bryn]

I guess that is part of it. By the way, not flexible time brackets but random processes to determine pitch, duration etc, one of the most beautiful and moving Cage performances I know is this

https://open.spotify.com/track/6QtRH...186b1322de44eb

Importing from QOBUZ now. Will listen later.

[pastoralguy]

Beethoven. ‘Cello sonatas.

Alisa Weilerstein, ‘cello. Inon Barnatan, piano.

At long last, these have arrived although, having purchased these discs from PRESTO, I’ve been listening to them on my distinctly low-Fi mobile ‘phone on the PRESTO app. The cd release was put back a month and delivery was delayed owing to the Thursday and Friday bank holidays but they are finally here!

Wonderful playing from Ms. Weilerstein, an artist I very much admire. So nice to finally hear this on the big Hi-Fi where her range of colours can be appreciated.

[RichardB]

what is it which determines how long a performer sustains a sound if it is not a sense of expression, the mood created by the music?

On the few occasions when I've performed Cage's Four6, I've tried to concentrate on not listening to what the other performers are doing or how my next sound might relate to them, not entering or leaving at what I might imagine to be the "right moment" but trying to make those moments as "accidental" as possible. I guess that might be characterised as being "expressive" on some level, but the intention is to "let the sounds be themselves" by entering a meditative state where "mood" isn't a relevant parameter.

[Mandryka]

On the few occasions when I've performed Cage's Four6, I've tried to concentrate on not listening to what the other performers are doing or how my next sound might relate to them, not entering or leaving at what I might imagine to be the "right moment" but trying to make those moments as "accidental" as possible. I guess that might be characterised as being "expressive" on some level, but the intention is to "let the sounds be themselves" by entering a meditative state where "mood" isn't a relevant parameter.

I want to think about this interesting post. When I read it I dug out Rob Haskins's book on the number pieces, and he has a chapter on Cage's political ideas. Cage apparently said that the number pieces were a metaphor for his ideal of a community. But I'm not ready to comment further on this.

[richardfinegold]

Beethoven. ‘Cello sonatas.

Alisa Weilerstein, ‘cello. Inon Barnatan, piano.

At long last, these have arrived although, having purchased these discs from PRESTO, I’ve been listening to them on my distinctly low-Fi mobile ‘phone on the PRESTO app. The cd release was put back a month and delivery was delayed owing to the Thursday and Friday bank holidays but they are finally here!

Wonderful playing from Ms. Weilerstein, an artist I very much admire. So nice to finally hear this on the big Hi-Fi where her range of colours can be appreciated.

I haven’t heard that set. How is the Pianist, who has an equally important role in this music?

[Bryn]

I haven’t heard that set. How is the Pianist, who has an equally important role in this music?

The principal role, surely? Beethoven named them as sonatas for piano and cello, did he not?

[edashtav]

The principal role, surely? Beethoven named them as sonatas for piano and cello, did he not?

Yes, but… surely the first two Beethoven Cello Sonatas are revolutionary in two senses, Bryn:
(I) they were the first with fully written out piano parts, i.e. not continuo sketches;
(II) their cello parts were independent of the continuo’s bass line.

Piano and cello may not have been equal but both were given elements of U.D.I..

[Bryn]

Yes, but… surely the first two Beethoven Cello Sonatas are revolutionary in two senses, Bryn:
(I) they were the first with fully written out piano parts, i.e. not continuo sketches;
(II) their cello parts were independent of the continuo’s bass line.

Piano and cello may not have been equal but both were given elements of U.D.I..

No argument from me, there. Such a pity that his only cello concerto had to have a violin and piano join the cello.

[edashtav]

No argument from me, there. Such a pity that his only cello concerto had to have a violin and piano join the cello.

Yes, indeed, and it’s such a Curate’s Egg.

[RichardB]

(I) they were the first with fully written out piano parts, i.e. not continuo sketches;
(II) their cello parts were independent of the continuo’s bass line.

But that's also true of JS Bach's sonatas for viola da gamba and keyboard, which would have been composed about half a century before Beethoven was born.

[pastoralguy]

I haven’t heard that set. How is the Pianist, who has an equally important role in this music?

Mmm, he seems pretty good!

[Jonathan]

I've finally got hold of Steven Osbourne's recording of Liszt's Harmonies Poetiques et Religieuses on Hyperion (it was on their "Bargins" list) so I hope to give that a spin at the weekend. Also got volume 14 of the Romantic Violin concerto series with Glazunov and Schoeck (who I've never heard of) so if I can listen to both, that would be great.

[Mandryka]

https://outhere-music.com/en/albums/schonberg-kammersymphonie-op-9-sechs-kleine-stucke-op-19-arr-holliger-webern-symphonie-op-21

Really colourful and sensual orchestrations by Heinz Holliger of Schoenberg op 19 piano pieces.