Amateur performances

[Dave2002]

I occasionally go to music performances by amateurs. Some of these present an interesting conundrum - "who are they for?". While some are good and enjoyable, some have such obvious faults that they can be almost painful to listen to. Yet if these performers are discouraged, opportunities are lost. Young performers may gain experience by playing in amateur orchestras, and some may go on to become professionals. Similarly many singers seem to enjoy singing in choirs.

The question can of course be generalised even to professional performers. Sometimes they seem to enjoy playing "difficult" music - which may be difficult as notes, or also technically. I have to say that there can be quite a thrill in playing difficult pieces, and eventually (maybe) mastering them, but what about listeners?

Personally I feel there is a lot to be gained from active participation in music, and performing/playing etc., but many listeners do not experience this, and listening to others singing or playing is not always as enjoyable as it could be. Sometimes I rush home and put on a CD by an accomplished group, and the differences are so obvious - but amateur enthusiasm should not be discouraged. Sometimes I gain a first experience of pieces I don't know from amateur performances.

Nobody would want to listen to me playing the piano, but I do enjoy it from time to time, and the experience for me is very different from attending a concert.

Over to you!

[cloughie]

I occasionally go to music performances by amateurs. Some of these present an interesting conundrum - "who are they for?". While some are good and enjoyable, some have such obvious faults that they can be almost painful to listen to. Yet if these performers are discouraged, opportunities are lost. Young performers may gain experience by playing in amateur orchestras, and some may go on to become professionals. Similarly many singers seem to enjoy singing in choirs.

The question can of course be generalised even to professional performers. Sometimes they seem to enjoy playing "difficult" music - which may be difficult as notes, or also technically. I have to say that there can be quite a thrill in playing difficult pieces, and eventually (maybe) mastering them, but what about listeners?

Personally I feel there is a lot to be gained from active participation in music, and performing/playing etc., but many listeners do not experience this, and listening to others singing or playing is not always as enjoyable as it could be. Sometimes I rush home and put on a CD by an accomplished group, and the differences are so obvious - but amateur enthusiasm should not be discouraged. Sometimes I gain a first experience of pieces I don't know from amateur performances.

Nobody would want to listen to me playing the piano, but I do enjoy it from time to time, and the experience for me is very different from attending a concert.

Over to you!

A lot of it is, whatever the age, taking part. Also there are particularly vocalists some excellent soloists about - some I prefer to hear rather than warbling, vibrato-laden professionals.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I've been thinking of starting a thread to draw attention to “Non-professional, non-national, non-international performance”. If you like including, as here “Amateur”. As to a discussion about amateur performers and performances, well, where to start?

I get on the train to the Royal Opera House, Wigmore Hall, Barbican and RFH (even the Albert Hall on occasion) and am very thankful I live close enough for that to be with some frequency. And after many years of listening to recordings, Record Review, Interpretations on record (etc), some years with a voice teacher, and over many years attending the said professional performances I can deliver my critical appraisal of what I have heard. Sometimes its been perfection (in the words of Janet Baker, everything has come together and the Gods descended) other times still very worthwhile, possibly memorable. It is however, passive, and is only addressing a very small group of elite performers with exceptional skills and artistry. That's one level…..

OTOH I'm lucky enough to live in a town sized “City” where, on Saturday evenings in term times there is at least one performance. Often there is a choice. Plus series of mid week lunch-time concerts, on Sunday afternoons, and occasional organ recitals. Some of those by professionals, others by amateurs. School ensembles, for example, use the lunchtime concerts to give performing experience to their students. There are large and medium size choirs and at least two chamber choirs; a chamber opera group, rehearsal orchestra (at least one) and a non-professional Symphony Orchestra (and in the case of the latter - standards have been rising in recent years).

I've sung with local groups for over 30 years, so I have a position in this discussion. I and Mrs CS support quite a lot of this music making, and approach it in a spirit of generosity (although allowances do not always need to be made) - its very worthwhile, there is a lot to appreciate and enjoy.

Music teachers want their students to gain performing experience and in my experience are always on the lookout for opportunities. What's the point of teaching music in schools if there are no performance opportunities? No concerts for Youth Choirs, Youth Orchestras, Wind/Brass bands (... other ensembles….?)? For them and rest of us who can and will there is considerable merit and reward in participating rather than only passively receiving professional performance? (Sorry – its a statement of the obvious).

I see it as an ecosystem - children get most from learning where there is a point to their effort and performance is a prime motivator. If they learn the rewards of music making they will be receptive in their future lives (and receptive for their children, one hopes). Of course, enjoyment in music making can start at any age and the more activity and participation, the more “musical biomass” in the musical life of the country.

That local activity supports young professional players and soloists - for (large and other) scale choral works, and symphony orchestra concerts for sure. Also small instrumental groups. (As I’m typing this, I’m listening on Radio Three to a soloist who was given their first professional engagement, followed by others over time, by one of the choirs with whom I sing). If we don’t want musical life to be only about principal cities then support is needed for more local performance, surely? And subsidy won’t be forthcoming, we can all accept. So, thanks to all those who support local music making!

That is my take on amateur in contrast to professional. I’ll probably be starting that thread where, I suggest, we can draw attention to local performances (including non-professional) which might appeal to those of us near enough to consider them…..

Meanwhile, here’s one worthy of note:

https://saffronhall.com/calendar/saffron-opera-group-gotterdammerung/

(Saffron Waldon, September. Non professional orchestra, professional soloists). Review of Siegfried:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/feb/14/siegfried-review-saffron-opera-group-walden-hall

(I’m sure there are cultural desserts, its regrettable but perhaps we should hope for flowers to bloom or oases to form there…..supporting those who struggle to bring that about).

[Dave2002]

Music teachers want their students to gain performing experience and in my experience are always on the lookout for opportunities. What's the point of teaching music in schools if there are no performance opportunities? No concerts for Youth Choirs, Youth Orchestras, Wind/Brass bands (... other ensembles….?)? For them and rest of us who can and will there is considerable merit and reward in participating rather than only passively receiving professional performance? (Sorry – its a statement of the obvious).

I see it as an ecosystem - children get most from learning where there is a point to their effort and performance is a prime motivator. If they learn the rewards of music making they will be receptive in their future lives (and receptive for their children, one hopes). Of course, enjoyment in music making can start at any age and the more activity and participation, the more “musical biomass” in the musical life of the country.

That local activity supports young professional players and soloists - for (large and other) scale choral works, and symphony orchestra concerts for sure. Also small instrumental groups. (As I’m typing this, I’m listening on Radio Three to a soloist who was given their first professional engagement, followed by others over time, by one of the choirs with whom I sing). If we don’t want musical life to be only about principal cities then support is needed for more local performance, surely? And subsidy won’t be forthcoming, we can all accept. So, thanks to all those who support local music making!

I agree with much of what has been written here. There are different aspects to performing, but they are certainly different from "merely" listening.
Perhaps my concern is that many people listen, but have much less involvement in music - and don't understand the possible merits of participating in musical performance - even if not in public.

Some aspects are:

1. Learning musical notation, conventions etc. This is not absolutely essential, but helps a lot. There are musicians who don't read music - though perhaps not so many.

2. Learning how to play an instrument. This can be quite a technical challenge - on most instruments. There is a sense of achievement in gaining even a slight mastery of an instrument.

3. Learning how to listen to others - and play with them.

4. Sight reading - for some a hard task. This can enable musicians to rapidly integrate with others to play or sing in a group.

5. Practice. Regular practice (or even irregular practice) is an (arguably!) useful discipline, and can give a sense or purpose and direction to activity. Trying to improve on some aspects each session is a worthwile activity. This is a goal oriented activity, and also a self critical one.

6. Playing or singing with others. This can be interesting/enjoyable on many levels - not the least of which might be making friends - though one can still be a participant in groups where there are no obvious friendships.

7. Discovering music by playing - this can be done as an individual - depending on the pieces being played. It is isn't always necessary to play with others.

[pastoralguy]

Having played in many amateur ensembles over the years, I feel that having a conductor who chose appropriate music is a good start. I once was persuaded onto leading an orchestra where the standard was about Associated Board Grade 5 to 6. The conductor insisted on attempting Bruckner 7 and then got annoyed because we didn't sound like Karajan's Berlin Philharmonic! ! (This concluded with a 'discussion ' that we were playing it better than he was 'CONducting' it!)