Should BBC radio be broadening the spectrum of music for young people

[MrGongGong]

But the thread title is referring specifically to BBC radio, not children's opportunities to participate in music.

Surely it has never been the case that 'most' children played musical instruments or participated in any way other than in listening to other people playing or to records. And the important choirs are mainly auditioned, so not being able to read music limits their participative opportunities.

I was only referring to the Guardian article which seems rather ignorantly put together which is a shame as there are some really big issues indeed.

But, don't get me started on McCartney and notation

[french frank]

But, don't get me started on McCartney and notation

[oddoneout]

In answer to the thread question - no, not in my opinion. The music is all there, not only on the BBC but other radio stations and the internet. What is needed is the encouragement/direction to sample what is on offer and that falls to other bodies to a large extent I believe. Giving young children an opportunity to participate in and experience good quality live music, regarding access to affordable music tuition as a worthwhile part of education for all, not just the favoured few - which as noted elsewhere brings the wider family in, are unfortunately victims to the current narrow view of what constitutes 'education' and therefore are not funded. The BBC has a role to play by providing material and initiatives such as 10 pieces for schools to use, but it could also do more outside the school setting. Making more use of its archives to put on interesting documentary programmes, reversing the(insulting in my view) trend to reduce coverage of Young Musician and Choir of the Year to unsatisfactorily edited chunks away from primetime TV, taking a risk occasionally with showing a concert or an opera at a time and on a channel that has a wider audience, doing more linked series with the OU. Catching the aural attention visually(so to speak) and then clearly indicating ways to follow up any interest that has been piqued seems to me a way to try and widen interest in what radio(whether BBC or otherwise) has to offer, and is less likely to exclude a potential audience by being 'yoof-focused'.

[DracoM]

A lot to endorse here, particularly a clever and creative use of the BBC's colossal archive / resources.
AND
"reversing the(insulting in my view) trend to reduce coverage of Young Musician and Choir of the Year to unsatisfactorily edited chunks away from primetime TV"

[Lat-Literal]

In answer to the thread question - no, not in my opinion. The music is all there, not only on the BBC but other radio stations and the internet. What is needed is the encouragement/direction to sample what is on offer and that falls to other bodies to a large extent I believe. Giving young children an opportunity to participate in and experience good quality live music, regarding access to affordable music tuition as a worthwhile part of education for all, not just the favoured few - which as noted elsewhere brings the wider family in, are unfortunately victims to the current narrow view of what constitutes 'education' and therefore are not funded. The BBC has a role to play by providing material and initiatives such as 10 pieces for schools to use, but it could also do more outside the school setting. Making more use of its archives to put on interesting documentary programmes, reversing the(insulting in my view) trend to reduce coverage of Young Musician and Choir of the Year to unsatisfactorily edited chunks away from primetime TV, taking a risk occasionally with showing a concert or an opera at a time and on a channel that has a wider audience, doing more linked series with the OU. Catching the aural attention visually(so to speak) and then clearly indicating ways to follow up any interest that has been piqued seems to me a way to try and widen interest in what radio(whether BBC or otherwise) has to offer, and is less likely to exclude a potential audience by being 'yoof-focused'.

Yes. There is considerable evidence to suggest that radio programmes designed for children are not visual enough to hold their attention. "Listen With Mother" was successful but almost every attempt since has been a stunning failure in terms of audience figures, most recently the daily programme at 4pm on Radio 4 Extra that was dropped. Why was LWM successful? Several reasons. One, television was in its infancy so it wasn't huge competition. In fact, LWM complemented "Watch With Mother" rather than competing with it. Secondly, it was designed for very young children who didn't have substantial schooling and for the most part would "stay put". Did they actually listen? That was indicated to a large extent by their amount of participation because it was a participation programme. Thirdly, it could probably be argued that all listening at any age ultimately goes back to the stage of a child listening to the mother so in the presence of an attentive mother the mother and the radio almost aligned during LWM. It was aimed at the pre roaming stage.

The comparatively recent expansion of children's television has been a success, building on earlier versions on BBC1/ITV and the likes of Sesame Street which has always been strong and recently introduced its first puppet character with autism. In one of the first scenes that puppet says she wants to play and her puppet friend comes up with all of the usual ideas but they don't connect. That isn't dissimilar to the relationship between adult broadcasters who would love children to have a wider range of games to play - ie classical music - but don't know how to engage their attention so it is a character that opens up huge possibilities on so very many levels. It is surely on the television side that interest in classical music on the radio could be encouraged sporadically in novel ways and it would be linked to the spectacle of events - the Proms etc - but then isn't it already being done?

All of this, though, defines the OP's "young people" as "youngish children".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNzEyDfTrYA

[Lat-Literal]

They can tell what a pipe looks like much better than pictures of carrots.
(but I almost agree with you about the ‘we’)

[ed.] This is an interesting article but how likely is it for the children who became interested in what they learned from this to ‘widen’ their interest in other type of music, such as classical music? Or is it not the point? And if this is one of the ways to interest young people, is there anything BBC radio can do to take place of youtube?

Can electronic music revolutionise school music lessons?
https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...bleton-youtube

I like this post. One of my lengthier ones mentioned almost everything other than electronica and I was subsequently aware that it had been omitted. We have had years of talk about the future being in the sciences as much as or more than in the arts. The real revolution is being led by consumer technology. That will see shifts. So, yes, instinct says that just as classical and other music will need to "interact" more with activities and events they will also need to embrace science and technology much more than they do currently.

[MrGongGong]

I like this post. One of my lengthier ones mentioned almost everything other than electronica and I was subsequently aware that it had been omitted. We have had years of talk about the future being in the sciences as much as or more than in the arts. The real revolution is being led by consumer technology. That will see shifts. So, yes, instinct says that just as classical and other music will need to "interact" more with activities and events they will also need to embrace science and technology much more than they do currently.

Maybe the EU has something to offer ? (for now at least )

http://www.interfacesnetwork.eu/post/3-new-music-audience-development-research

[french frank]

Can electronic music revolutionise school music lessons?
https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...bleton-youtube

Woo-hoo! We could pay Google to place classical music videos next to the electronica

[ahinton]

I was 'chid' for suggesting Paul McCartney's musicianship was 'lesser' because George Martin did the arrangements - which was my point about reliance on trained musicians.

Not to mention the help that he received from Richard Rodney Bennett and - er - David Matthews...

[Stanfordian]

Not to mention the help that he received from Richard Rodney Bennett and - er - David Matthews...

I'll hum it and you write it down then elaborate and orchestrate it.

[Lat-Literal]

Maybe the EU has something to offer ? (for now at least )

http://www.interfacesnetwork.eu/post...pment-research

The S of S said to the Select Committee that the UK is a world superpower in science and innovation or something along those lines and provided statistics as to why we were second only to the US in terms of producing outstanding individuals in key fields. He said that a lot of that was down to a combination of the excellent teaching and research facilities at universities here and foreign students. It is a priority to ensure that continues via Erasmus Mundus and whatever else. It seems to me the arts communities should really be drawing up a list of what they consider to be most important, perhaps especially at the technological "interface" and then submitting it formally so that the detail of it is understood. The sheer amount of detail having to be taken on board across every area is mind boggling. It would be a pity if protest got in the way of vitally important inputs.

[Globaltruth]

Wouldn't it be interesting if this whole thread arrived on important desks in R3?
Just an idle thought.

YES

[MrGongGong]

The S of S said to the Select Committee that the UK is a world superpower in science and innovation or something along those lines and provided statistics as to why we were second only to the US in terms of producing outstanding individuals in key fields. He said that a lot of that was down to a combination of the excellent teaching and research facilities at universities here and foreign students. It is a priority to ensure that continues via Erasmus Mundus and whatever else. It seems to me the arts communities should really be drawing up a list of what they consider to be most important, perhaps especially at the technological "interface" and then submitting it formally so that the detail of it is understood. The sheer amount of detail having to be taken on board across every area is mind boggling. It would be a pity if protest got in the way of vitally important inputs.

Sadly this is guff
there is no chance of any of the people you mention even bothering to read or listen to what anyone says

Nothing to do with "protest" but to do with these things being run on ideology rather than facts, knowledge or experience

[DracoM]

We must not let this thread wither. It is in ALL our interests - and I most seriously include he BBC / R3 - to research, think through, promote and do practical work to re-seed the ground.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

We must not let this thread wither. It is in ALL our interests - and I most seriously include he BBC / R3 - to research, think through, promote and do practical work to re-seed the ground.

- I completely agree. Perhaps it might help if the focus were returned to what BBC Radio specifically can/should do in this regard. Looking at the online BBC "Bitesize" resources, there are clearly many people to whom the Beeb has access, who can think and present educational matters in an accessible manner to teenagers. But the Music content (unless I've missed it - Surely there's something connected with the Ten Pieces?) is reserved for GCSE and "A"-Level studies - in other words, for those who are already aware of and committed to the cultural opportunities of Arts study. The Listening Service seems similarly geared towards this sort of Sunday afternoon on R3, it isn't likely to catch the attention of anyone who doesn't already know about it. (Leaving aside TS's gabbled presentation, which is exactly the sort that makes kids hostile - many a student teacher [I know whereof I type] has approached his/her subject with such enthusiasm, and so burning a desire to tell their captive audience absolutely everything there is to know about a topic in the 35-45 minute span they have. As a result, the audience is given too much information at once, and given no opportunity to absorb and ponder the information being poured over them, and so they reject everything and become hostile to ideas that might have opened new opportunities for them.)

What, in the comfort of my retirement armchair (and with no practical facts to back up my thoughts), I think would be better is Online resources for teachers of all age groups, together with contributions on Radios 1, 1x, 6, and Asian from practitioners from the worlds of "Classical", Jazz, and World Musics closer in age to (and/or with a more sympathetic understanding of) the audiences to whom we might wish to give this broader spectrum.