Originally posted by Brassbandmaestro
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Available on Vol 2 of Ravel's Orchestral works on Naxos played by LyonNO conducted by Leonard Slatkin. -
Slatkin did a splendid follow-up CD of conductors' arrangements, deliberately omitting Stokowski, as Chandos had already recorded a load of his Bach arrangements with Matthias Bamert and the BBCPO. Slatkin's 'Bach-by-Conductors' collection featured Skrowaczewski, Ormandy, Leinsdorf, Wood, Sargent, Barbirolli, Mitropoulos, Gui, Klemperer and Damrosch. Apropos the Elgar Fantasy and Fugue, Ormandy recorded it with his Philadelphians but omitted the percussion (jingles and so on) and amended the very ending but with the Philadelphia strings in particular, it's still a terrific performance ...Originally posted by Brassbandmaestro View Post
Strange how you get a lot of Elgar in his Bach arrangement, with shades of "Gerontius," "Enigma" and parts of the 1st Symphony!Comment
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If I were basing that view on Stokowski's awful muddy attempts, then I would agree. But actually much organ music is quite easy to transcribe, as orchstras and bands have similar sustaining properties to organs. I think some piano music is really hard to transfer to an orchestra, especially if its principal structure is broken or arpeggiated chords. So for instance Mussorgsky' Pictures cry out for orchestral treatment (IIRC, even Henry Wood made an excellent shot at it) so also Debussy's Claire de Lune, but a Chopin piece such as the Fantaisie Impromptu in C# minor leaves you wondering where...and how...to start.I always think of organ works by various different composers as being probably the most difficult instrument to change into another mediumComment
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There's nothing "awfully muddy" about Stokowski's orchestrations at all. When his first Philadelphia 78 of the Toccata and Fugue in D minor was released back in 1928, the 'Gramophone' reviewer wrote: "This is one of the most exciting achievements of the American orchestra. The only word is magnificent. Every organist has his ideal conception of how he would like this arranged for the orchestra, but I do not think any will withhold very high praise indeed to the transcriber and the players. I strongly urge every reader to get this record. It will exhilarate and delight for ever."Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
in the Slatkin / Chandos booklet notes, Skrowaczewski, who also orchestrated the same piece, is quoted as saying that the organ "was a kind of precursor to the big orchestra." This is shown by the specification of the organ in St. Bartholomew's, New York, where Stokowski was organist before he took to the orchestral podium. The book entitled "Stokowski and the Organ" by Rollin Smith refers to the "many specimens of 'strings' stops ... the reeds are very smooth and brilliant" and in his various orchestrations Stokowski aimed for the kind of sounds he conjured up in the St. Bartholomew's organ loft.
Purists may not like what he did but that's just a matter of taste and opinion. In any case, I doubt if anyone would describe this arrangement of a keyboard Prelude in B minor as remotely "muddy" ... It's simplicity itself! ...
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I am in two minds about Stowkowski's arrangements. But Joachim Raff's arrangement of the Chaconne by Bach, is something else, again from the recording mentioned by Cali, above.Don’t cry for me
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J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
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Leaving aside what one thinks of Stokowski's Bach arrangements, what do you think of the downbeat that Dutoit gives at the start of the Toccata and Fugue transcription? Specifically, how do the players manage to come in almost a second after the beat, rather than on it? It's not a sync fault between video and audio, as is evident from the shots of the orchestra, but all the shots of Dutoit show him to be well ahead of the beat, so to speak, so it seems a wonder that they're all spot on, at any rate as far as ensemble is concerned ...
Now see Stokowski himself, batonless, in this rehearsal of Leonore No. 3, stopping the players at the start with "Attack together!" ...With him, the players are exactly on the beat, not after it, so it's interesting to compare Stokowski's downbeat with Dutoit's. I can only assume that the players for Dutoit work out when to come in during his rehearsals, in the same way that the players do for Stokowski ...
Last edited by seabright; 05-05-17, 17:07.Comment
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This is when Seabright, is what we call, when our "musicality"(for want of a word, comes in. We know, or seem to know, instinctively, when to come in.Don’t cry for me
I go where music was born
J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
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Any views on Bantock's arrangements - his Wachet Auf and Sheep may safely graze are superb with wonderful bass- lines running through them.Originally posted by Brassbandmaestro View PostComment
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This is another part of Bantock's oeuvre that needs more recognition.Originally posted by cloughie View PostDon’t cry for me
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J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
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As a trumpeter I can be fairly defensive about arrangements where the brass medium is concerned. After all, it's not our fault the instruments (apart from the sackbut) weren't fully chromatic until the early-mid 19th century, but there are some things that should be left well alone. Organ transcriptions are fair game up to a point (Not just Bach - The English Brass Ensemble recorded a stupendous transcription by Paul Archibald of Widor's entire Symphony No. 5 in the 1990s). However, a few years ago the Washington Symphonic Brass recorded an arrangement of part 1 of Le Sacre du Printemps. Obviously there are some 'brass friendly' sections but a French horn cannot substitute for the opening bassoon solo. At the end of the arrangement (as I said - just the first part) I just thought 'why'? Just because it CAN be done, it doesn't mean to say it should be.Comment
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thanks for your post Dave Payne. As I was reading through your post and you mentioned Stravinsky's Le Sacre, I was wondering hiow did they manage to climb over the copyright mangle? I would love to arrange this for concert band because then, it be obvious to have the bassoon playing the opening solo?Originally posted by Dave Payn View PostDon’t cry for me
I go where music was born
J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
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Indeed. To my mind the whole point of arrangement is to let people hear something they wouldn't otherwise hear, or to put it another way, to add something to what's already there. Any arrangement of something like Le Sacre would inevitably given listeners less than they can hear in the original, which (unlike in previous ages) can be heard in recorded form by anyone at any time. I guess there's the argument that reductions of something like Le Sacre given people a chance to play something they wouldn't otherwise have a chance to play, but surely that's just the luck of the draw when you play one instrument rather than another. My wife is a harpist and she's never going to play Le Sacre either.Originally posted by Dave Payn View PostComment
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That reminds me that Edmund Rubbra orchestrated Rachmaninoff's Prelude in G minor in two versions: a full orchestra arrangement and also one for a smaller ensemble which retained the piano part. It is the latter that is on You Tube in a performance conducted by Frederick Fennell. I assume the full orchestra version hasn't yet been recorded ...Originally posted by cloughie View Post
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There's a wind band arrangement of 'The Planets' on You Tube played by the United States Marine Band. Here's 'Mars' as a 'taster' ...Originally posted by Dave Payn View Post
And here are the Washington Symphonic Brass in the 'Dance of the 7 Veils' ...
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Don't forget Stephen Robert's masterly transcription of Holsts's Planets.Don’t cry for me
I go where music was born
J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
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