Women composers

[P. G. Tipps]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...t-not-tokenism

Why do we NEED more women composers? This modern media obsession with gender rather than the quality of the music (or whatever other subject is discussed) might be one for those whose first priority is social and political engineering but I've never heard anyone discuss such matters at any concert or any admittedly amateurish music discussion in which I've ever been involved. Still, in the final analysis, composers must eventually convince even that great majority of non-professional punters!

We need what we consider to be great music and any truly objective listener surely couldn't give a toss whether it came via the pen of a John or Joanna?

Whatever blocks women have encountered in the past that certainly doesn't apply nowadays, in fact quite the opposite!

C'mon, ladies .. now's your chance ... show us what you can do!

[MrGongGong]

any truly objective listener

See foot
Take aim
Shoooooooooot

[ahinton]

Why do we NEED more women composers? This modern media obsession with gender rather than the quality of the music (or whatever other subject is discussed) might be one for those whose first priority is social and political engineering but I've never heard anyone discuss such matters at any concert or any admittedly amateurish music discussion in which I've ever been involved. Still, in the final analysis, composers must eventually convince even that great majority of non-professional punters!

We need what we consider to be great music and any truly objective listener surely couldn't give a toss whether it came via the pen of a John or Joanna?

Whatever blocks women have encountered in the past that certainly doesn't apply nowadays, in fact quite the opposite!

C'mon, ladies .. now's your chance ... show us what you can do!

Oh, for God's - or someone's - sake, go away and make yourself a cup of - well, I was going to say "tea", but perhaps it would better be some of the P. G. stuff...

[ahinton]

See foot
Take aim
Shoooooooooot

You need a gun and the ability to use it first...

[MrGongGong]

Oh, for God's - or someone's - sake, go away and make yourself a cup of - well, I was going to say "tea", but perhaps it would better be some of the P. G. stuff...

Isn't that a woman's job ?

[doversoul1]

Isn't that a woman's job ?

What? To show him the door?

[french frank]

Whatever blocks women have encountered in the past that certainly doesn't apply nowadays,

I think you may have just proved the opposite case, Mr T

[ahinton]

Isn't that a woman's job ?

Member Grew would likely think so - so no...

[Richard Barrett]

There have been some interesting projects recently trying to deal with some of these issues like this one http://www.soundandmusic.org/sites/d...%20VERSION.pdf

I can't say I've read every word of that article, but don't you think it's motivated by an attempt to shoehorn education in creativity/composition into the metrics-obsessed framework that characterises education at this point in time? ("What can we assess?", as fg says.) Putting composers into schools is naturally going to produce as many wildly-different results as there are composers, given that not all are interested in or capable of doing meaningful work in this kind of area, while others might be both but with limited ideas of what composition could be, and so on; all of which militates against the kind of generalisations which the research is trying to extract as possible guidelines for education policy. But what's the connection here with the gender imbalance mentioned in Susanna's article?

And please everyone, this is an important issue and a discussion with many possible directions that could be taken from the article linked in the OP, can we try to concentrate on that and not get distracted by silly and irrelevant interventions?

[Pianorak]

Fanny Mendelssohn: Easter Sonata
Sofya Gulyak (piano)

Until recently, Fanny Mendelssohn's Easter Sonata was wrongly attributed to her brother Felix - not least because it's just so good! Thanks to some serious detective work, the music has now been correctly restored to its proper creator - and this is our first chance to hear it in the UK.

R3 - 13:00 Wed 08/03/2017

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Member Grew would likely think so - so no...

There's no necessity to attack other members.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

An interesting occurrence from the mid-1980s.

When it was proposed to compose a musical work on the subject of the women's peace camp on Greenham Common, the words used in the libretto were mostly written/ spoken by the women themselves. Much of of it was based on the more extreme aspects of feminism of that time, but it was faithful to the views of the Greenham Common women.

Ideally, the music might have been composed by a woman, but none was found who was also in sympathy with the subject matter. Hence Tony Biggin was asked to compose the "choral drama". The women form Greenham Common were invited to attend the premier in the RFH in 1985, and some did. Their reaction to the work was quite favourable, but there was some ill-feeling because "The Gates of Greenham" was "by a man".

[french frank]

but there was some ill-feeling because "The Gates of Greenham" was "by a man".

It's an interesting point: are there circumstances, at some time in an evolving situation, when it might be thought more powerful to have the work by a man? When the point of equality is reached, the subject will be more important than the involvement of a man/men/a woman/women. But it throws a light on the situation in the 1980s.

[MrGongGong]

I can't say I've read every word of that article, but don't you think it's motivated by an attempt to shoehorn education in creativity/composition into the metrics-obsessed framework that characterises education at this point in time? ("What can we assess?", as fg says.) Putting composers into schools is naturally going to produce as many wildly-different results as there are composers, given that not all are interested in or capable of doing meaningful work in this kind of area, while others might be both but with limited ideas of what composition could be, and so on; all of which militates against the kind of generalisations which the research is trying to extract as possible guidelines for education policy. But what's the connection here with the gender imbalance mentioned in Susanna's article?

And please everyone, this is an important issue and a discussion with many possible directions that could be taken from the article linked in the OP, can we try to concentrate on that and not get distracted by silly and irrelevant interventions?

Some good points which fall outside this specific discussion I think ?
I think we (sadly in many ways) do have to work inside the frameworks that exist if we are going to work in schools or other educational institutions. There are obvious "cut off" points where it becomes impossible (and many of us have reached those and withdrawn from projects as a result etc) which vary from person to person.
I posted the link because I felt it was something that was addressing issues of composition in music education not necessarily those of gender imbalance.

[MrGongGong]

Ideally, the music might have been composed by a woman, but none was found who was also in sympathy with the subject matter.

Having been a music student at the time I find this more than a little unbelievable.
I wonder who "they" asked ?