John Eliot Gardiner - the pros and cons...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I much prefer him in French repertoire than - with a few exceptions (Bach's Christmas Oratorio, the two recordings of Beethoven's Missa Solemnis ... OK; with two exceptions) I dislike his idea of how German repertoire should be performed. Other performers get more of the wit, subtlety, and tenderness of these works than I think he does.

Berlioz, Debussy, Gluck, the Rake - I find much more to admire in these. And, as Richard has pointed out, JEGger's notion of HIPP is a very limited one, confined chiefly to matters of instruments and tempo.

[BBMmk2]

Don't some of JSB's works lend themselves to a theatre-ish style of performance, so some conductors, like JEGGERs, would perhaps lend their interpretations this way?

[jayne lee wilson]

I certainly find the earlier cycles - Schumann, Beethoven etc - often rather inexpressive and unyielding; but the recent live ORR issues (2011-13) of Beethoven's 5th and 7th, then the 2nd and 8th (in excellent 24/96), show a warmer more generous approach to phrase and sonority, though still with intense rhythmic energy and dynamic drama. The same goes for the live SDG 2012 Missa Solemnis, despite my fondness for the DG Archiv one. One notes too a keener differentiation between the specific expressive and stylistic characters of each of the symphonies.

I seem to be alone in my affection for the latest Bach B Minor, finding it more lyrical and relaxed than the earlier, perhaps more operatically confrontational reading. But again, I bought the newer SDG one in 24/96, and I feel the extra smoothness and resolution - and an ideally ambient yet immediate balance - does help reveal the positives of Gardiner's typical approach, as it does in the Beethoven 2 and 8.

These live readings are among my all-time favourites for the works now, perhaps even above the various Harnoncourt, Bruggen, Zinman and other issues.

But my very favourite JEG album is the second, live SDG account (2008) of Brahms' German Requiem. An iconic work for me, and in the Edinburgh Usher Hall this is given an immediacy, a closer balance than we often get with JEG issues; there's warmth, affection and orchestra colour, along with the usual glorious Monteverdi choral work which makes this recording very special.
(Wasn't he always happiest with choral music anyway? I don't play them often, but his Schumann choral recordings strike my ear more enjoyably than the symphonies at least...)

I feel he always made his expressive points with obvious, rather metrical and measured, tempo and dynamic changes, rather than the caressing of a phrase or much rubato. Brightly lit or analytical colour rather than timbral blend. Always that sharp leading-edge attack and rhythmic precision yet - as the recent issues demonstrate - able to sacrifice some of this to the live in-the-moment excitement. The higher resolutions, some inviting acoustic settings, and warmer timbres of recent issues reveal these characteristics in a softer or at least more sympathetic light, I think.

[BBMmk2]

Lots to listen to for me, in the next few weeks there JLW. I was put off by his 2nd recordings of JSB, Mass in B Minor, wasn't it? Not sure. But these other SDG recordings I may well look at.

I would like to know though what do Forumistas think about the theatricality of JSB's works through Eliot Gardiner's interpretations? I do think that they lend themselves to that in his DG recordings, most certainly?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Some of his romantic offerings are quite superb. His Vienna Phil recordings of Mendelssohn, Lehar and Elgar are among the very best, and I regard his performance of In the South as the finest available.

[makropulos]

Some of his romantic offerings are quite superb. His Vienna Phil recordings of Mendelssohn, Lehar and Elgar are among the very best, and I regard his performance of In the South as the finest available.

I wouldn't rate it 'the finest available' recording of In the South, but it's certainly a good performance. JEG's Verdi Requiem and - especially - the Four Sacred Pieces - is another set that I find very impressive. Others that I enjoy include the DG Schumann set and the Philips Verdi Falstaff and Brahms Requiem (pace JLW, I marginally prefer it to the later one). I'm much less taken with quite a lot of his Bach.

[MickyD]

His pioneering recording of the wonderful Campra Requiem is unmatched by any other, in my opinion. And one must never forget the important work he did in bringing Rameau's "Les Boréades" to our attention - a fantastic recording, along with Leclair's "Scylla and Glaucus." I also think his version of Handel's "L'Allegro, il Penseroso ed il Moderato" is the best in the catalogue.

In later repertoire, I loved his 2 CD set of Massenet for Erato, and the DG "Merry Widow" is great stuff.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm much less taken with quite a lot of his Bach.

I only have the Cantatas, and I wouldn't be without these. However, I'm less keen on his recording of Handel's Messiah - it sounds a little contrived - if that's the right word.

[Nick Armstrong]

His pioneering recording of the wonderful Campra Requiem is unmatched by any other recording, in my opinion. And one must never forget the important work he did in bringing Rameau's "Les Boréades" to our attention - a fantastic recording, along with Leclair's "Scylla and Glaucus." I also think his version of Handel's "L'Allegro, il Penseroso ed il Moderato" is the best in the catalogue.

Great shout (as they say) to highlight those French baroque recordings - yes, "Les Boréades" was a revelation for me - and his Handel recordings on Erato (and Purcell too for that matter).

[BBMmk2]

I have very much enjoyed reading this thread. Thank you Cali, for starting it off. There is so much that JEGGERs has done, so I be listening to a few of his recordings on Spotify Premium today, where I can.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I have very much enjoyed reading this thread. Thank you Cali, for starting it off. There is so much that JEGGERs has done, so I be listening to a few of his recordings on Spotify Premium today, where I can.

And - to combine a couple of your recently-mentioned "projects", Bbm, he has recorded Monteverdi's Vespers and l'Orfeo.

[BBMmk2]

And - to combine a couple of your recently-mentioned "projects", Bbm, he has recorded Monteverdi's Vespers and l'Orfeo.

Many thanks Ferney! The wonders of being long-term sick. The wonders of making use of your time in exploring music you wouldn't otherwise have heard or recordings you wouldn't have heard, and writing music as well.

[gurnemanz]

In 2014 we went to a 50th anniversary concert of the Monteverdi Choir at Northleach church in the Cotswolds in aid of the Prince of Wales’s charity, Music in Country Churches. He is their patron and was in attendance. A mixed programme contained one item by a less familiar member of the Bach clan, his father's cousin, Johann Christoph, which I had never heard before. The piece they did, Mit Weinen hebt sich's an, was very beautiful, simple and haunting and set to the most depressing text imaginable: we are born crying, life consists of fear, worry and torment, then comes the darkness of death. (Life's a bitch, then you die).

[BBMmk2]

Great shout (as they say) to highlight those French baroque recordings - yes, "Les Boréades" was a revelation for me - and his Handel recordings on Erato (and Purcell too for that matter).

I really liked his recording of Les Boreades as well. still not have that yet. Luckily for Spotify!

[BBMmk2]

Please see my post onn WAYLYN II, re Gardiner.