John Eliot Gardiner - the pros and cons...

[LHC]

‘ Classical Conductor hits singer ‘ believe you me it would have made the local press and indeed probably the nationals . A great story….thing is with a heavy metal band it wouldn’t be news or at least all that surprising . But because it white tie and tails and fancy composers it’s news …

I'm not sure that's true anymore. The recent on-stage bust up between the lead singer and the guitarist of the band Jane's Addiction (which did include a punch being thrown), and the subsequent cancellation of the rest of their tour, was widely reported across several media. Something like this is always a good story for the press.

[Master Jacques]

Because he isn't just "someone else"? He is a high profile, very influential person and as such his behaviour makes bigger ripples in terms of the effect on others. It may only be subconscious but seeing someone in that position behaving like that risks making it seem normal and acceptable - even expected, perpetuating the perception of extreme behaviour being somehow a necessary part of high artistic endeavour and achievement.
Do you have any qualifiers in your support of artistic talent excusing bad conduct? Where does Robert King sit in that view? Please note, I am asking because I would be interested to know.

He is only a "very influential person" within our own, small sub-world. The majority of people would never have heard of him before social media and the popular press dredged this up, to show the masses how "the nobs" were still putting them down. It gives "ordinary folk" an opportunity to laugh at the pretensions of "high art", whose practitioners are proving themselves just as bad as the everyone else.

As I've tried to emphasise, I am not interested in "excusing" anyone's behaviour, or peddling my own opinion of them as human beings. I am more interested in analysing the effect these witch hunts have on the common weal. In King's case, I was disturbed by a salacious undercurrent to the moral condemnation. Here is somebody that most people want totally excluded from work and society, until his dying day. A wish which seems to have been granted, judging by the moribund nature of the King's Consort - despite the support of Dame Carolyn Sampson and other loyal colleagues. Then of course, the moral crusaders start going for them as well, so their defence of the anathemised one takes some courage and must be respected.

[Master Jacques]

Au contraire. The Guardian reported that witnesses described a 'quick' slap across the face, followed by a 'quick' punch on the mouth, after uttering the threat to throw a glass of beer over the culprit's head and being persuaded not to. And this after the show was over without any report of loud audience boos because someone exited left instead of right.

I'm happy to stand corrected, as The Guardian reporter's account is festooned with "alleged" and "reportedly" riders. Other accounts only mention a slap. As to JEG's alleged lack of proper contrition, I note that the same report prints that, "He deeply regrets his behaviour and recognises that it has had a significant impact on colleagues for whom he has the most profound admiration and respect".

Shouldn't that have been the end of it?

[french frank]

Shouldn't that have been the end of it?

It might have been if he hadn't started up a new outfit which almost seems to be shadowing the Monteverdis about. 'Allegedly' and 'reportedly' are journalese, I assume because a court case might conceivably have followed. If it happened as alleged/reported, and this had happened after a spat at the local pub, he could have found himself charged with assault, the sentence depending on his past record. Instead, it's a blot on his reputation but because he's a celebrated musician that hardly matters.

I agree the matter could now be laid to rest, as clearly nothing further will happen to him and his career, but not because of the 'triviality' of the offence.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm not sure that's true anymore. The recent on-stage bust up between the lead singer and the guitarist of the band Jane's Addiction (which did include a punch being thrown), and the subsequent cancellation of the rest of their tour, was widely reported across several media. Something like this is always a good story for the press.

Yes you’re right though band punch ups are two a penny. If they took the same attitude at MCO there’d be virtually no one left . Could drink and drugs be a factor ?

[Master Jacques]

Could drink and drugs be a factor ?

I see from french frank's Guardian link, that drugs were mentioned in mitigation by Sir John.

Happy to leave it at that: let's see how the Hamburg audience react - with their feet, going to the so-called "new" band and JEG? or by loyally standing by the rump of the old Monteverdi Orchestra and Choir?

[french frank]

I see from french frank's Guardian link, that drugs were mentioned in mitigation by Sir John.

To be clear: I think he was speaking of prescription drugs!

[Ein Heldenleben]

He is only a "very influential person" within our own, small sub-world. The majority of people would never have heard of him before social media and the popular press dredged this up, to show the masses how "the nobs" were still putting them down. It gives "ordinary folk" an opportunity to laugh at the pretensions of "high art", whose practitioners are proving themselves just as bad as the everyone else.

As I've tried to emphasise, I am not interested in "excusing" anyone's behaviour, or peddling my own opinion of them as human beings. I am more interested in analysing the effect these witch hunts have on the common weal. In King's case, I was disturbed by a salacious undercurrent to the moral condemnation. Here is somebody that most people want totally excluded from work and society, until his dying day. A wish which seems to have been granted, judging by the moribund nature of the King's Consort - despite the support of Dame Carolyn Sampson and other loyal colleagues. Then of course, the moral crusaders start going for them as well, so their defence of the anathemised one takes some courage and must be respected.

I don’t blame them for laughing . So am I . JEG comes across in interview as insufferably pompous and self satisfied. He’s also quite incredibly rude . There was a telling piece of actuality in a SBS doc about him. He wasn’t happy with the singing by a group of French singers recording I think a Cherubini Revolutionary anthem. They weren’t putting enough oomph into it . He said to a woman in the front row “Peut-être vous etes monarchiste Madame ? “ He asked. “Pas-du-tout “ she replied very politely. What a twit he is - literally no idea how to handle people.

[Maclintick]

He is only a "very influential person" within our own, small sub-world. The majority of people would never have heard of him before social media and the popular press dredged this up, to show the masses how "the nobs" were still putting them down. It gives "ordinary folk" an opportunity to laugh at the pretensions of "high art", whose practitioners are proving themselves just as bad as the everyone else.

So he was languishing in rural obscurity until the Will Thomas incident, then ?....

[Master Jacques]

To be clear: I think he was speaking of prescription drugs!

I suppose that's also the case for most rock stars, in this day and age!

[Master Jacques]

So he was languishing in rural obscurity until the Will Thomas incident, then ?....

Apparently so, for Auntie at least!

[Master Jacques]

I don’t blame them for laughing . So am I . JEG comes across in interview as insufferably pompous and self satisfied. He’s also quite incredibly rude . There was a telling piece of actuality in a SBS doc about him. He wasn’t happy with the singing by a group of French singers recording I think a Cherubini Revolutionary anthem. They weren’t putting enough oomph into it . He said to a woman in the front row “Peut-être vous etes monarchiste Madame ? “ He asked. “Pas-du-tout “ she replied very politely. What a twit he is - literally no idea how to handle people.

Laughter is the best response - better by far than Andrew Mellor's pouty high horsing, over a year after the event.

And at least JEG can speak French, and didn't speak to them SLOWLY AND LOUDLY in English!

[mopsus]

Slightly changing tack and apologies if someone has said this in the last 22 screenloads, but I wonder whether the MCO et al's approach might be driven by future-proofing. While conductors may stay active till they are well over 80, sooner or later JEG would have had to lay down his baton, possibly preceded by a period of uncertainty and cancellations at short notice. If they sever ties with him now they can go looking for a successor immediately.

[Retune]

Slightly changing tack and apologies if someone has said this in the last 22 screenloads, but I wonder whether the MCO et al's approach might be driven by future-proofing. While conductors may stay active till they are well over 80, sooner or later JEG would have had to lay down his baton, possibly preceded by a period of uncertainty and cancellations at short notice. If they sever ties with him now they can go looking for a successor immediately.

Which raises the obvious question of what happens to Gardiner's new band, and anyone who jumps ships to it, when he does retire to his farm. Will it ever be anything more than a JEG vehicle, destined to exit the scene when he does, or does his ego entertain the possibility of anointing a loyal successor? With spoiler concerts lined up in direct competition with the MCO, some cynic on Slipped Disc has made a rather apt comparison with the 'spite stores' on Curb Your Enthusiasm.

[french frank]

some cynic on Slipped Disc has made a rather apt comparison with the 'spite stores' on Curb Your Enthusiasm.

I confess to having been a touch bemused on reading your post ...