John Eliot Gardiner - the pros and cons...

[oddoneout]

Just been to the Monteverdi Choir website and none of those concerts are advertised on it (at least not under the Charpentier/Bach programme, I didn’t look everywhere)…

I wonder if the relevant contracts might have involved Gardiner himself?

So that as long as he turns up it didn't matter which band he brings with him(or why) because he is the bums on seats draw.
Mind you I was rather surprised when looking earlier today to find that Vienna doesn't seem to have caught up even with his split from MCO, let alone his new band.

https://www.operabase.com/productions/english-baroque-soloists-monteverdi-choir-gardiner-258028/de

and several what I assume are ticket buying outlets also seem to have the same information - whether it all becomes clear once one starts the booking/buying process I don't know.
This doesn't exactly clarify matters, and doesn't fit with what I found, but as I don't do twitbook I'm probably not up to date on the MCO happenings - the last mention, on 22 August on their site is of the Rousset appointment and December concerts in London and La Scala.

Both ensembles are on tour at the same time with an identical program. However, the distribution of the venues is not yet entirely clear. On their respective homepages, both ensembles even sometimes give the same concert dates for the same cities (as of September 10, 2024, 11:00 a.m.) . The duplicate concerts include the Vienna Konzerthaus, the Philharmonie Luxembourg and the Konzerthaus Dortmund. However, the three venues are each announcing a concert by Gardiner with his new ensemble on their own channels for the dates in question.
https://www.br-klassik.de/aktuell/ne...monie-100.html

. Ah well, they've all got time to sort it out before the audiences arrive.

[Barbirollians]

Robert King rehabilitated quite effectively.
Some lesser mortals weren’t able to, though.
Crazy mixed up world.

Robert King appears to have disappeared from Bachtrack - maybe his return to concerts and recording came to an end after one of his victims wrote articles in the Guardian detailing the horrific abuse.

[teamsaint]

Robert King appears to have disappeared from Bachtrack - maybe his return to concerts and recording came to an end after one of his victims wrote articles in the Guardian detailing the horrific abuse.

Yep, it seems you may be right.
King , some punishment served, surely had options to live and work quietly out of public view. It would have been the least he could do.

[Darkbloom]

I see that Immerseel has been given the boot from his own band now. What is it about period instruments that brings out the worst in people? I blame the valveless horns.

[Retune]

Robert King appears to have disappeared from Bachtrack - maybe his return to concerts and recording came to an end after one of his victims wrote articles in the Guardian detailing the horrific abuse.

I hadn't seen that before and King isn't named in the (heartbreaking) article I just found, though it's obviously him from details like the length of the sentence and the mention of James Fenton's dreadful 'we have so much to thank [our most distinguished artists] for' apologia. The level of rehabilitation that King at least initially enjoyed was always baffling given the seriousness of his abuse, even without this moving account from a survivor. And King is still active in the studio and praised by critics. Gramophone reviewed a 2023 King's Consort release on his own Vivat label as 'quite simply, a delightful recording', noting that 'King’s playing on the harpsichord is gloriously languid'.

[Barbirollians]

It's revolting how the classical music establishment appear to have forgiven King .

[Barbirollians]

Yep, it seems you may be right.
King , some punishment served, surely had options to live and work quietly out of public view. It would have been the least he could do.

As retune points out it seems not at least so far as recordings are concerned.

[Retune]

I see that Immerseel has been given the boot from his own band now. What is it about period instruments that brings out the worst in people? I blame the valveless horns.

Some wit on Slipped Disc commented that the site needs a new category for these stories: HIP Replacements. Did Immerseel have a bit of a reputation before this, as Gardiner apparently did? Otherwise I might wonder if the claimed aggression in later life was the sad sign of some age-related condition.

[Barbirollians]

Some wit on Slipped Disc commented that the site needs a new category for these stories: HIP Replacements. Did Immerseel have a bit of a reputation before this, as Gardiner apparently did? Otherwise I might wonder if the claimed aggression in later life was the sad sign of some age-related condition.

They should have fired him for that Symphonie Fantastique recording.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Some wit on Slipped Disc commented that the site needs a new category for these stories: HIP Replacements. Did Immerseel have a bit of a reputation before this, as Gardiner apparently did? Otherwise I might wonder if the claimed aggression in later life was the sad sign of some age-related condition.

HIPP replacements - that’s genius …

On a serious note it strikes me that smaller largely freelance orchestras are unlikely to have in place the HR and management structure that bigger orchestras have. The other problem , the same as in TV and film is that the talent - be they conductors or presenters - can often get people sacked by clicking their fingers.

[Master Jacques]

It's revolting how the classical music establishment appear to have forgiven King .

Why is forgiveness "revolting"? Robert King's done his time, so isn't it also time for charity to replace shaming? The people whose opinions actually matter - his fellow artists - believe so, at any rate. And their decision should be respected.

They are hard-working, underpaid musicians. They are not the "establishment", which has not "forgiven" the man. You won't find him doing much work for the BBC, for starters, which ought to satisfy even the most sanctimonious critics.

[Retune]

Why is forgiveness "revolting"? Robert King's done his time, so isn't it also time for charity to replace shaming? The people whose opinions actually matter - his fellow artists - believe so, at any rate. And their decision should be respected.

They are hard-working, underpaid musicians. They are not the "establishment", which has not "forgiven" the man. You won't find him doing much work for the BBC, for starters, which ought to satisfy even the most sanctimonious critics.

King may not be invited to the Proms any more, but he continues to perform with star soloists, receive gushing reviews, is routinely nominated for Gramophone Awards, and is the Executive Producer of a record label that has picked up where Hyperion left off, adding further sales to the 1.5M records his ensemble has shifted. It's hardly sanctimonious to look askance at his frictionless return to the heart of the classical music industry after serving whatever fraction he completed of his relatively short sentence, with no expression of remorse. For the five known survivors of his abuse, the damage may be permanent, a sentence with no remission. After reading this account by one survivor (who 'the conductor' allegedly started to groom at the age of eleven), I think it would take a particularly strong stomach, or a peculiar lack of empathy, to be comfortable with how readily he has been welcomed back to the fold. According to this account, the abuser was naively forgiven after several assaults, with promises that they would end. Instead, the abuse resumed and escalated.

[Barbirollians]

King may not be invited to the Proms any more, but he continues to perform with star soloists, receive gushing reviews, is routinely nominated for Gramophone Awards, and is the Executive Producer of a record label that has picked up where Hyperion left off, adding further sales to the 1.5M records his ensemble has shifted. It's hardly sanctimonious to look askance at his frictionless return to the heart of the classical music industry after serving whatever fraction he completed of his relatively short sentence, with no expression of remorse. For the five known survivors of his abuse, the damage may be permanent, a sentence with no remission. After reading this account by one survivor (who 'the conductor' allegedly started to groom at the age of eleven), I think it would take a particularly strong stomach, or a peculiar lack of empathy, to be comfortable with how readily he has been welcomed back to the fold. According to this account, the abuser was naively forgiven after several assauls, with promises that they would end. Instead, the abuse resumed and escalated.

Very well said . The sentencing remarks were a disgrace - his sentence was very lenient even for when he committed the offences - now he would be facing a much longer sentence. Child sexual abuse is an offence I for one find very difficult to forgive.

[richardfinegold]

The Immerseel story is short on details

[mopsus]

I've said this in another thread, but at least one English Cathedral will now not allow compositions by convicted child abusers on its music lists. I imagine that others will follow its lead, even though it means one popular recent hymn tune at least would disappear from the repertoire.