John Eliot Gardiner - the pros and cons...

[teamsaint]

He has moved on, having reflected...

https://www.theguardian.com/music/article/2024/sep/09/john-eliot-gardiner-starts-new-orchestra-and-choir-after-2023-assault-apology

I suppose it's easier to make a return when the bad behaviour isn't sexual?

Robert King rehabilitated quite effectively.
Some lesser mortals weren’t able to, though.
Crazy mixed up world.

[oliver sudden]

Curious business: MCO are doing a Christmas programme at the Elbphilharmonie in Hamburg on December 14th, and JEG’s new group is performing at the same venue on December 7th… with the same programme.

https://www.elbphilharmonie.de/en/whats-on/sir-john-eliot-gardiner-the-constellation-choir-orchestra/22732

https://www.elbphilharmonie.de/en/whats-on/english-baroque-soloists-monteverdi-choir-christophe-rousset/21507

(Not my detective work—Patrick Allies posted it on bluesky.)

[Pulcinella]

The Times has this article:

https://www.thetimes.com/article/c221cb69-d50d-4a92-8001-44b80f638eda?shareToken=7a218c726e2ad1d20d9f4561104e3a4f

[richardfinegold]

If the slapping incident had been a one off, I would be more sympathetic the JEG. As it apparently was not, I find this difficult to swallow. Perhaps JEG and his new band can provide music to accompany Donald Trump rallies

[oddoneout]

If the slapping incident had been a one off, I would be more sympathetic the JEG. As it apparently was not, I find this difficult to swallow. Perhaps JEG and his new band can provide music to accompany Donald Trump rallies

This is what concerns me about this business. The fact that JEG has set up a rival group and seems set on going head to head with MCO doesn't sit well with a declaration that lessons have been learned and he is a reformed character IMO. By all means continue music making, he undoubtedly still has much to offer in that respect(even if one doesn't like his interpretations) but in such a confrontational - "I was wronged" - approach - no. The punch itself may have been a one-off, but the mindset that produced it wasn't; as is so often the case bad behaviour existed as part and parcel of the package, but wasn't acted on.
The "punch and putsch" approach makes for better headlines though...

[Darkbloom]

I completely disagree with the notion that any kind of violence (whether it's a punch or a slap) can be excused on the grounds that it was an isolated incident. Incidents of this kind are very rarely a one-off (as we know in the case of JEG) and even if it hasn't happened before, the fact that it has happened once means that there is a very good chance that it could happen again. I've been a huge admirer of JEG the musician, but this kind of behaviour should be 'one and done' and the music world ought to move on from him. He's clearly one of those Type A personalities that is incorrigible and incapable of the kind of reflection he claims to have engaged in over the past year. He's out for revenge now, similar to the way he came up with his SDG label (and I think we all know what that stood for) after falling out with Deutsche Grammophon. I think it's all incredibly sad: I'm sure even the most casual listener would have been at least somewhat aware of his irascible reputation, and I'm sure there is a lot more that we don't know about - people like that tend to leave a trail of destruction behind them over the years.

[Ein Heldenleben]

An extraordinarily provocative act to run a rival tour and , if reports are accurate , getting the dates of the rival cancelled - with the consequent impact on the musicians . I honestly think it’s time to boycott this individual no matter how good he is . I’ve never been that impressed so it’s no great loss. It’ll be interesting to see what the attitude of the major record companies and broadcasters is as the latter have all adopted very stringent anti bullying harassment policies which also apply to their contractors .

[Mario]

I have tried really hard to stop myself from releasing some good old-fashioned Mediterranean venom, lest I upset those Gardiner-following delicate flowers.

As if there’s not enough hatred, bitterness, jealousy, envy, nastiness, anger, vitriol, racism in the world currently, how anyone can defend physical violence because a chap entered the stage from the wrong side (or whatever the reason was), is beyond my comprehension as a simple human being who wishes no one any harm.

Never liked his interpretations anyway, being completely devoid of any human emotion, he doesn’t have my sympathy, nor any support of his performances.

Putin-loving Gergiev went in the bin – so will Gardiner.

[oddoneout]

An extraordinarily provocative act to run a rival tour and , if reports are accurate , getting the dates of the rival cancelled - with the consequent impact on the musicians . I honestly think it’s time to boycott this individual no matter how good he is . I’ve never been that impressed so it’s no great loss. It’ll be interesting to see what the attitude of the major record companies and broadcasters is as the latter have all adopted very stringent anti bullying harassment policies which also apply to their contractors .

There are surely at least 2 parties to that decision? The booking was with the venue I assume so they would have to agree to the "swap". It's not the same as when the original booking can't,for whatever reason, go ahead and a replacement has to be found.
It will be interesting to see how this(from the Times article, my bold) works out; as has been mentioned previously there seems to be a somewhat different view to such things among performers in other countries, so audiences may be happy to attend the CCO version. It's not as if the split with MCO is new news, so it may be that folk who are JEG followers are happy to have this opportunity if they had thought seeing him live was no longer an option due to the split.
"The MCO had been promoting on its websites concerts this December at Wiener Konzerthaus in Vienna, the Philharmonie in Luxembourg and the Konzerthaus in Dortmund. However, the “buy ticket” links now lead to the concert hall’s advertisement of CCO performances."

[richardfinegold]

I completely disagree with the notion that any kind of violence (whether it's a punch or a slap) can be excused on the grounds that it was an isolated incident. Incidents of this kind are very rarely a one-off (as we know in the case of JEG) and even if it hasn't happened before, the fact that it has happened once means that there is a very good chance that it could happen again. I've been a huge admirer of JEG the musician, but this kind of behaviour should be 'one and done' and the music world ought to move on from him. He's clearly one of those Type A personalities that is incorrigible and incapable of the kind of reflection he claims to have engaged in over the past year. He's out for revenge now, similar to the way he came up with his SDG label (and I think we all know what that stood for) after falling out with Deutsche Grammophon. I think it's all incredibly sad: I'm sure even the most casual listener would have been at least somewhat aware of his irascible reputation, and I'm sure there is a lot more that we don't know about - people like that tend to leave a trail of destruction behind them over the years.

I agree that behavioral incidents rarely exist in isolation. However I think people should be given second chances until they demonstrate a pattern. If JEG had otherwise demonstrated normal behavior, and then slapped the singer, allowing him to resume his career after a reasonable disciplinarian action is reasonable, with a one -more -strike-and-out proviso.

[LHC]

Given the naked egotism and spite of scheduling exactly the same concert with his new group in the same hall 7 days before his previous group's concert, JEG's press statement would appear to be a masterpiece of double think:

"It gives me great pleasure to announce the foundation of Springhead Constellation, a unique new project embodying a vibrant collective of musical ensembles, creative artists and makers. ... I am so excited and grateful to be working with such exceptional musicians once again, not forgetting the important lessons I have learnt and needed to learn from the past year,"

[oliver sudden]

"The MCO had been promoting on its websites concerts this December at Wiener Konzerthaus in Vienna, the Philharmonie in Luxembourg and the Konzerthaus in Dortmund. However, the “buy ticket” links now lead to the concert hall’s advertisement of CCO performances."

Just been to the Monteverdi Choir website and none of those concerts are advertised on it (at least not under the Charpentier/Bach programme, I didn’t look everywhere)…

I wonder if the relevant contracts might have involved Gardiner himself?

[Ein Heldenleben]

I agree that behavioral incidents rarely exist in isolation. However I think people should be given second chances until they demonstrate a pattern. If JEG had otherwise demonstrated normal behavior, and then slapped the singer, allowing him to resume his career after a reasonable disciplinarian action is reasonable, with a one -more -strike-and-out proviso.

The employment position in a lot of major companies in the Uk is pretty clear - verbal, sexual harassment and bullying will usually be met with a verbal warning then two written warnings. The second written is final and a subsequent offence will usually lead to dismissal. You’ve really got to go some to get that point and most companies , unless they want to get rid of you from other reasons , will usually send the “offender” on various remedial courses . The harassment “threshold” is a lot , lot lower now than it was forty years ago and virtually every manager I know at one stage had some one complaining about them.

Physical attacks or sexual assault usually mean summary dismissal (ie no warnings ) if the perpetrator admits it or the evidence is overwhelming - ie as with Clarkson and JEG lots of witnesses. One reason employers are more stringent than the Police (neither Clarkson or JEG were charged with anything ) is because of the threat of litigation from the victim for failure to create a “safe “ employment environment. That’s why JEG has to go I suspect. The BBC had one or other two rules which would usually lead to dismissal - having sex on BBC premises fand non payment of the licence fee for example.

[Darkbloom]

Given the naked egotism and spite of scheduling exactly the same concert with his new group in the same hall 7 days before his previous group's concert, JEG's press statement would appear to be a masterpiece of double think:

"It gives me great pleasure to announce the foundation of Springhead Constellation, a unique new project embodying a vibrant collective of musical ensembles, creative artists and makers. ... I am so excited and grateful to be working with such exceptional musicians once again, not forgetting the important lessons I have learnt and needed to learn from the past year,"

It reminds me of a sketch Peter Cook did when he portrayed Sir Arthur Streeb-Greebling: 'I have learned from my mistakes and can repeat them exactly!'

[oddoneout]

It reminds me of a sketch Peter Cook did when he portrayed Sir Arthur Streeb-Greebling: 'I have learned from my mistakes and can repeat them exactly!'

The most important lesson being "Don't get caught"