John Eliot Gardiner - the pros and cons...

[smittims]

l've heard Alessandrini on Radio 3 and Emelyanychev conducted a televised Prom two or three years ago . I think it was rhe Sottish C.O; I remember especially a later Mozart Symphony (K543?). He has a curious prancing, dancing style which seeme to me to add nothing; I felt the orchestra could have played it just the same if he wasn't there. I certainly didn't notice any 'love, understanding or warmth of personality'. Still, it meant I remembered him , and that's what it's all about these days, isn't it?

[Rolmill]

Public confession time - I'd never previously heard of the 3 young conductors named in the extract from the article in the i.

I'm sure the first two would be delighted to hear themselves described as young! Cummings is in his mid-50s, Alessandrini is in his mid-60s and has been winning awards for his recordings (mainly with Concerto Italiano) for over 30 years.

I can't read the i article (without taking out a subscription), but the passage quoted by o s strikes me as a highly dubious and rather lazy assertion.

[Old Grumpy]

I can't read the i article (without taking out a subscription)...

Mmm - sorry about that, I didn't realise - possibly because I do have a subscription and the I -app on my phone. Using my usual browser I can read the whole article unimpeded. However, using a different browser on my phone and the same (different) browser on my PC I see a subscription pop up after a short interval which blocks the screen completely and (seemingly) cannot be removed.

[richardfinegold]

Jessica Duchen in the i:

https://inews.co.uk/culture/arts/punches-flashing-verbal-abuse-classical-music-bullying-3216407

Paywall

[richardfinegold]

Public confession time - I'd never previously heard of the 3 young conductors named in the extract from the article in the i.

Alessandri is well known but the other two drew a blank

[Old Grumpy]

Paywall

Yep - surprised me too! See post above - No. 228

[oliver sudden]

The existence of 12ft.io has recently been brought to my attention and I am sure no one here will
abuse it. (That’s how I read the article…)

[Historian]

Alessandri is well known but the other two drew a blank

They are all from the HIPP world more than being 'mainstream' conductors. I have worked with both Cummings and Emelyanychev. The latter's style is certainly idiosyncratic but he is an interesting and enthusiastic musician. Cummings was excellent from the point of view of a choral singer.

Not sure I fully understand what the article quoted above was trying to say: both the conductors mentioned above seem very affable as well as more than competent. I would have thought that the 'old-style' dictator on the podium was on the way out. They were only a subset of conductors anyway weren't they?

[richardfinegold]

I'm sure the first two would be delighted to hear themselves described as young! Cummings is in his mid-50s, Alessandrini is in his mid-60s and has been winning awards for his recordings (mainly with Concerto Italiano) for over 30 years.
.

That is amusing. It also serves as a reminder that the HIP movement has been with us for decades and imo is no longer a “fresh breath of air”

[Maclintick]

"A new generation of conductors is taking early music to fresh heights. Where the elder “maestri” were pioneers, researching, experimenting, learning on the job, sometimes triumphing and sometimes failing in their quest for so-called “authenticity” (which was then proven to be an unrealisable concept), conductors like Laurence Cummings, Rinaldo Alessandrini and Maxim Emelyanychev have been able to slot into the soundworld and infuse it with the deeper values of love, understanding, and warmth of personality that some of the 1980s zealots could occasionally miss"

Oh come on.

Quite. These are questionable assertions.The writer name-checks a few of the older gen "maestri" whose performances were no doubt lacking in "the deeper values of love, understanding, and warmth of personality" . So what of others, including JEG's almost exact contemporaries William Christie and Sigiswald Kuijken, or Gustav Leonhardt ? Are they to be lumped into the less-than-golden-oldie bracket ? BTW, I was able to read the article in short bursts by activating a VPN & entering Incognito mode which briefly delayed the paywall pop-up.....a case of effort exceeding reward, really

[LMcD]

Jessica Duchen in the i:

https://inews.co.uk/culture/arts/punches-flashing-verbal-abuse-classical-music-bullying-3216407

Edit: Seems this link has a paywall. Apologies

The i is one of the 3 newspapers that can be read in our local library, although I do buy it on Saturday.

[oddoneout]

The i is one of the 3 newspapers that can be read in our local library, although I do buy it on Saturday.

Is that "real" newspapers or online? My local library has quite a range of papers and magazines available but only online. I can understand why the move has been made by the County Library service but it isn't suited to casual browsing, as in 'see the paper/magazine on a table and sit down to read it for a while' to fill in time while waiting for something else.

[LMcD]

Is that "real" newspapers or online? My local library has quite a range of papers and magazines available but only online. I can understand why the move has been made by the County Library service but it isn't suited to casual browsing, as in 'see the paper/magazine on a table and sit down to read it for a while' to fill in time while waiting for something else.

'Real' newspapers available at our local library are the i, The Times and the East Anglian Daily Times. I read the first of these after I've finished shopping and am waiting for a bus home (we have just 4 a day),

[Master Jacques]

Do we have to tolerate silly, sanctimonious lectures on human behaviour from Jessica Duchen?

This is the person (lest we forget) who wrote this coarse and vulgar tripe about Anton Bruckner,
as evidence that he wasn't any good as a composer:

Reflections of composers’ personalities usually emerge, in one way or another, in
their music, and Bruckner (1824-1896) is no exception. He was obsessive
compulsive. He had a counting mania – to the point that he would stand under a tree
and count its leaves. It’s not excessive to say that he was a deeply repressed and
dysfunctional individual. He had little or no personal life – occasionally he tried to
propose to teenage girls – and he's thought to have died a virgin. Legend suggests
that he slept in protective clothing because he suffered “nocturnal emissions”.

I for one have no time and less inclination to jump on Duchen's brainless bandwagons.

[oddoneout]

The Grauniad "John Eliot Gardiner leaves Monteverdi Choir and Orchestras after assault allegation"

https://www.theguardian.com/music/article/2024/jul/24/john-eliot-gardiner-monteverdi-choir-and-orchestras

https://monteverdi.co.uk/news/JEG-statement-July2024

He has moved on, having reflected...

https://www.theguardian.com/music/article/2024/sep/09/john-eliot-gardiner-starts-new-orchestra-and-choir-after-2023-assault-apology

I suppose it's easier to make a return when the bad behaviour isn't sexual?