John Eliot Gardiner - the pros and cons...

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  • smittims
    Full Member
    • Aug 2022
    • 4142

    l've heard Alessandrini on Radio 3 and Emelyanychev conducted a televised Prom two or three years ago . I think it was rhe Sottish C.O; I remember especially a later Mozart Symphony (K543?). He has a curious prancing, dancing style which seeme to me to add nothing; I felt the orchestra could have played it just the same if he wasn't there. I certainly didn't notice any 'love, understanding or warmth of personality'. Still, it meant I remembered him , and that's what it's all about these days, isn't it?

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    • Rolmill
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 634

      Originally posted by LMcD View Post
      Public confession time - I'd never previously heard of the 3 young conductors named in the extract from the article in the i.
      I'm sure the first two would be delighted to hear themselves described as young! Cummings is in his mid-50s, Alessandrini is in his mid-60s and has been winning awards for his recordings (mainly with Concerto Italiano) for over 30 years.

      I can't read the i article (without taking out a subscription), but the passage quoted by o s strikes me as a highly dubious and rather lazy assertion.

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      • Old Grumpy
        Full Member
        • Jan 2011
        • 3611

        Originally posted by Rolmill View Post

        I can't read the i article (without taking out a subscription)...
        Mmm - sorry about that, I didn't realise - possibly because I do have a subscription and the I -app on my phone. Using my usual browser I can read the whole article unimpeded. However, using a different browser on my phone and the same (different) browser on my PC I see a subscription pop up after a short interval which blocks the screen completely and (seemingly) cannot be removed.

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        • richardfinegold
          Full Member
          • Sep 2012
          • 7666

          Originally posted by Old Grumpy View Post
          Jessica Duchen in the i:

          Top conductor John Eliot Gardiner has departed the MCO after punching a young singer. It's an extreme example of a problem that has plagued the classic world for centuries
          Paywall

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          • richardfinegold
            Full Member
            • Sep 2012
            • 7666

            Originally posted by LMcD View Post

            Public confession time - I'd never previously heard of the 3 young conductors named in the extract from the article in the i.
            Alessandri is well known but the other two drew a blank

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            • Old Grumpy
              Full Member
              • Jan 2011
              • 3611

              Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post

              Paywall
              Yep - surprised me too! See post above - No. 228

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              • oliver sudden
                Full Member
                • Feb 2024
                • 612

                The existence of 12ft.io has recently been brought to my attention and I am sure no one here will
                abuse it. (That’s how I read the article…)

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                • Historian
                  Full Member
                  • Aug 2012
                  • 642

                  Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post

                  Alessandri is well known but the other two drew a blank
                  They are all from the HIPP world more than being 'mainstream' conductors. I have worked with both Cummings and Emelyanychev. The latter's style is certainly idiosyncratic but he is an interesting and enthusiastic musician. Cummings was excellent from the point of view of a choral singer.

                  Not sure I fully understand what the article quoted above was trying to say: both the conductors mentioned above seem very affable as well as more than competent. I would have thought that the 'old-style' dictator on the podium was on the way out. They were only a subset of conductors anyway weren't they?

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                  • richardfinegold
                    Full Member
                    • Sep 2012
                    • 7666

                    Originally posted by Rolmill View Post

                    I'm sure the first two would be delighted to hear themselves described as young! Cummings is in his mid-50s, Alessandrini is in his mid-60s and has been winning awards for his recordings (mainly with Concerto Italiano) for over 30 years.
                    .
                    That is amusing. It also serves as a reminder that the HIP movement has been with us for decades and imo is no longer a “fresh breath of air”

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                    • Maclintick
                      Full Member
                      • Jan 2012
                      • 1071

                      Originally posted by oliver sudden View Post

                      "A new generation of conductors is taking early music to fresh heights. Where the elder “maestri” were pioneers, researching, experimenting, learning on the job, sometimes triumphing and sometimes failing in their quest for so-called “authenticity” (which was then proven to be an unrealisable concept), conductors like Laurence Cummings, Rinaldo Alessandrini and Maxim Emelyanychev have been able to slot into the soundworld and infuse it with the deeper values of love, understanding, and warmth of personality that some of the 1980s zealots could occasionally miss"

                      Oh come on.
                      Quite. These are questionable assertions.The writer name-checks a few of the older gen "maestri" whose performances were no doubt lacking in "the deeper values of love, understanding, and warmth of personality" . So what of others, including JEG's almost exact contemporaries William Christie and Sigiswald Kuijken, or Gustav Leonhardt ? Are they to be lumped into the less-than-golden-oldie bracket ? BTW, I was able to read the article in short bursts by activating a VPN & entering Incognito mode which briefly delayed the paywall pop-up.....a case of effort exceeding reward, really



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                      • LMcD
                        Full Member
                        • Sep 2017
                        • 8460

                        Originally posted by Old Grumpy View Post
                        Jessica Duchen in the i:

                        Top conductor John Eliot Gardiner has departed the MCO after punching a young singer. It's an extreme example of a problem that has plagued the classic world for centuries



                        Edit: Seems this link has a paywall. Apologies
                        The i is one of the 3 newspapers that can be read in our local library, although I do buy it on Saturday.

                        Comment

                        • oddoneout
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2015
                          • 9188

                          Originally posted by LMcD View Post

                          The i is one of the 3 newspapers that can be read in our local library, although I do buy it on Saturday.
                          Is that "real" newspapers or online? My local library has quite a range of papers and magazines available but only online. I can understand why the move has been made by the County Library service but it isn't suited to casual browsing, as in 'see the paper/magazine on a table and sit down to read it for a while' to fill in time while waiting for something else.

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                          • LMcD
                            Full Member
                            • Sep 2017
                            • 8460

                            Originally posted by oddoneout View Post

                            Is that "real" newspapers or online? My local library has quite a range of papers and magazines available but only online. I can understand why the move has been made by the County Library service but it isn't suited to casual browsing, as in 'see the paper/magazine on a table and sit down to read it for a while' to fill in time while waiting for something else.
                            'Real' newspapers available at our local library are the i, The Times and the East Anglian Daily Times. I read the first of these after I've finished shopping and am waiting for a bus home (we have just 4 a day),

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                            • Master Jacques
                              Full Member
                              • Feb 2012
                              • 1882

                              Do we have to tolerate silly, sanctimonious lectures on human behaviour from Jessica Duchen?

                              This is the person (lest we forget) who wrote this coarse and vulgar tripe about Anton Bruckner,
                              as evidence that he wasn't any good as a composer:

                              Reflections of composers’ personalities usually emerge, in one way or another, in
                              their music, and Bruckner (1824-1896) is no exception. He was obsessive
                              compulsive. He had a counting mania – to the point that he would stand under a tree
                              and count its leaves. It’s not excessive to say that he was a deeply repressed and
                              dysfunctional individual. He had little or no personal life – occasionally he tried to
                              propose to teenage girls – and he's thought to have died a virgin. Legend suggests
                              that he slept in protective clothing because he suffered “nocturnal emissions”.
                              I for one have no time and less inclination to jump on Duchen's brainless bandwagons.
                              Last edited by Master Jacques; 20-08-24, 17:55.

                              Comment

                              • oddoneout
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2015
                                • 9188

                                Originally posted by AuntDaisy View Post
                                The Grauniad "John Eliot Gardiner leaves Monteverdi Choir and Orchestras after assault allegation"

                                https://monteverdi.co.uk/news/JEG-statement-July2024
                                He has moved on, having reflected...


                                I suppose it's easier to make a return when the bad behaviour isn't sexual?

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