John Eliot Gardiner - the pros and cons...

[Kingfisher]

Well he’s presumably taken not only medical but also PR advice - full apology now issued which even flirts with a touch of humility. It doesn’t ring true. He has too much form.

[Darkbloom]

I've been a fan of JEG for a long time but this is totally disgraceful and I hope he quietly retires and goes back to his farm and stays there. We all know he has a bad temper but I didn't know he was physically abusive. If he's like that at 80 I can only imagine what he must have been like in the past. In a way it's worse when you are attacked by an elderly person (it's happened to me) because you don't know what to do; you obviously can't hit them back if they are fifty years older than you. For some reason I thought he had mellowed a bit over the years, I couldn't have been more wrong.

[RichardB]

The real issue is the cult of celebrity and power, in which people who have ascended to the top of the heap feel they do not have to follow the rules of human discourse, and their apologists.

You are so right. I have come across plenty of such people even in the relatively rarefied corner of the musical world I live and work in (although it's bigger on the inside than on the outside, but that's another story). A blind eye is given to their behaviour by all the people around them who rely on them for gigs, both musicians and management. This is how someone like James Levine got away with being a monster for so long. I admire JEG as a musician in many ways, but everyone I know who's had any contact with him has stories of his offensive behaviour.

[Pulcinella]

I've been a fan of JEG for a long time but this is totally disgraceful and I hope he quietly retires and goes back to his farm and stays there. We all know he has a bad temper but I didn't know he was physically abusive. If he's like that at 80 I can only imagine what he must have been like in the past. In a way it's worse when you are attacked by an elderly person (it's happened to me) because you don't know what to do; you obviously can't hit them back if they are fifty years older than you. For some reason I thought he had mellowed a bit over the years, I couldn't have been more wrong.

I hope he doesn't treat his animals in the same way in which he appears to treat other humans.

[Master Jacques]

According to the BBC Radio 4 6 o'clock news, half an hour ago, this scandalous event happened after a performance of Monteverdi's opera The Trojans. I find such ignorance from a paid journalist quite as scandalous as anything in Gardiner's (par for the course) brutal behaviour.

[Ein Heldenleben]

According to the BBC Radio 4 6 o'clock news, half an hour ago, this scandalous event happened after a performance of Monteverdi's opera The Trojans. I find such ignorance from a paid journalist quite as scandalous as anything in Gardiner's (par for the course) brutal behaviour.

The journalist has mixed up the choir with the composer haven’t they ? The mistake tallies with everything I’ve heard about the current experience level in the newsroom . Of course in my day there were plenty of JEG style editors to hand out random excoriations.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I hope he doesn't treat his animals in the same way in which he appears to treat other humans.

Doesn’t he raise steers for slaughter ? I would hope his musos get considerably better treatment. Though I’d rather be a male beef cow than a male dairy one. Obviously breeding bull would be best.

[Master Jacques]

The journalist has mixed up the choir with the composer haven’t they ? The mistake tallies with everything I’ve heard about the current experience level in the newsroom . Of course in my day there were plenty of JEG style editors to hand out random excoriations.

Ha! I like it ... a quick crack across the fingers with a ruler might have sorted out the ignorant offender in this case, whose faux-pas doubtless grew from the cause you suggest.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Ha! I like it ... a quick crack across the fingers with a ruler might have sorted out the ignorant offender in this case, whose faux-pas doubtless grew from the cause you suggest.

To be honest the old style shouty style doesn’t work and in broadcasting is actively counter- productive . Apart from anything else people just switch off or turn the volume right down on talkback. Much more effective is spending money on recruitment, training and one to one mentoring. An awful lot of people work in jobs where no one has even told them what’s expected of them. Different in the Arts maybe but I bet shouty directors and conductors encounter exactly the same reaction.

[Bryn]

According to the BBC Radio 4 6 o'clock news, half an hour ago, this scandalous event happened after a performance of Monteverdi's opera The Trojans. I find such ignorance from a paid journalist quite as scandalous as anything in Gardiner's (par for the course) brutal behaviour.

Yes, I heard that, too. Made me think of Giotto's Guernica.

[Dave2002]

I've been a fan of JEG for a long time but this is totally disgraceful and I hope he quietly retires and goes back to his farm and stays there. We all know he has a bad temper but I didn't know he was physically abusive. If he's like that at 80 I can only imagine what he must have been like in the past. In a way it's worse when you are attacked by an elderly person (it's happened to me) because you don't know what to do; you obviously can't hit them back if they are fifty years older than you. For some reason I thought he had mellowed a bit over the years, I couldn't have been more wrong.

Sadly some very calm and responsible people do become violent in their old age, as dementia sets in. I have heard of older people being evicted from their care homes, which causes big problems as other care homes are then reluctant to take them in.

[oddoneout]

Sadly some very calm and responsible people do become violent in their old age, as dementia sets in. I have heard of older people being evicted from their care homes, which causes big problems as other care homes are then reluctant to take them in.

That is true, and something we faced with my mother(fortunately not resulting in eviction), but the impression I get is that JEG has long had "anger management" issues. They might have got worse due to medical factors or the general changes that come with increasing age but essentially have always been there.

[MickyD]

And I seem to recall from years ago that his relationship with the Vienna Phil was cut very short due to certain issues not made clear at the time.

[Master Jacques]

Yes, I heard that, too. Made me think of Giotto's Guernica.

Wonderful! I think I might settle down this evening in my armchair, to read Dickens's War and Peace.

[Darkbloom]

Doesn’t he raise steers for slaughter ? I would hope his musos get considerably better treatment. Though I’d rather be a male beef cow than a male dairy one. Obviously breeding bull would be best.

I remember hearing a piece on R3 where he was driving around his farm in Dorset and bantering awkwardly with some of his underlings on the farm. He has barns named after particular works he had conducted in the past, like 'Cellini' (or something like that anyway, the exact details escape me). In interviews he always comes across as thoughtful and charming, it's hard to imagine him going into a rage fit but I don't doubt anyone's experiences. This latest outburst does seem genuinely deranged and makes you wonder whether he's fit to carry on working if he's liable to go off like that. It was such a petty little thing that set him off too, not that it would have been any better if it had been something more serious that caused the incident.